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‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

melmagazine.com

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Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the point you missed is how the media is almost as powerful as the state but get a pass to act like a small individual from your example.

> the point you missed is how the media is almost as powerful as the state “The media” collectively might have such power, but the media isn't a single entity like the state, and in any case neither the media nor the entities actually comprising it inflict criminal punishment, and even the State does not bear the high burden of criminal proof when it isn't trying to inflict criminal punishment.

Given how consolidated media ownership has become, I'm not sure this is true. In addition the ability to destroy reputations is real damage that the media does all the time.

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#62
post #60

Looking at Admissions/Deposits/Fees for the private English boarding school that Low went to (Harrow School), I was surprised at how "affordable" it actually is. /I/ couldn't afford it, but for the level of access you are giving your child to the world of the elite, £30k doesn't seem like its all THAT much money.

That sort of school then has all sorts of “optional but really compulsory” extra fees for things like trips abroad etc. If the sticker price is 30k per year, the actual one is probably around 40k. For comparison, the average salary in UK is 28k before taxes.

40k gbp still isn't that much. That's around what the top boarding schools cost in the US. My main concern wouldn't be the sticker price but whether you need to come from the right "background" (e.g. not nouveau-riche) for your child to get accepted. To my understanding the top US boarding schools are less concerned with your financial pedigree, which makes sense given that most rich people in the US are nouveau-riche by British standards

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#63

Looking at Admissions/Deposits/Fees for the private English boarding school that Low went to (Harrow School), I was surprised at how "affordable" it actually is. /I/ couldn't afford it, but for the level of access you are giving your child to the world of the elite, £30k doesn't seem like its all THAT much money.

I knew someone (from a proper upper-class English background) who went to Harrow, and hated every minute of it. I wouldn't subject my kids to that, even if I had the money

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is. Innocent means you did not commit the crime. Not Guilty, OTOH, means that the current presented evidence was not sufficient to determine that you did commit the crime, thus not meeting its burden of proof.

Juries only rule guilty or not guilty - innocence comes up in appealing existing guilty convictions.

In Scotland, juries can return one of three rulings: "guilty", "not guilty", and "not proven". I'm not sure what effect this has in practice.

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#65
Some of the writing here came out really petty. Made it difficult to read and take the article seriously.

> It seems the socially-awkward Low had a thing for rich, mildly attractive, blonde daughters of famous American families.

> [Low would] be photographed with his sweaty, alcohol-flushed face on her shoulder.

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#66
post #16

Directly related book recommendation: Billion Dollar Whale by Tom Wright and Bradley Hope, published 2018. They book follows the founders of 1MDB, the quasi Malaysia soverign wealth fund wbhose investments included the founding of Red Granite the producers of Wolf of Wall Street, from pre-1MDB days through to it's demise. Quite quick and easy, repeats itself a bit and imho falls apart/seems rushed at the end, but a f…

I'd go further and say don't even read the OP - which is just a summation of the original reporting from the book, and go to the book instead. The story is remarkable and it's hard to put the book down

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#67
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Irony is when the outcome of a state of affairs is opposite the expected one. Like making a movie about financial scams, which one would expect it would be just "a movie about financial scams" and not "a financial scam", but it turns out it was also "a financial scam"? :-)

>Like making a movie ... which one would expect it would be ... not "a financial scam" I think you have better expectations of the film industry than I do :-)

hahaha fair enough! :)

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After having watched White Collar I usually say that about most accusations. We have all seen shows where an innocent person looks guilty. We somehow went from innocent until proven guilty to ridiculed and reviled until dead (and even that doesnt end it) regardless of the verdict or the reality.

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard, it is unreasonable and impractical to expect individuals to abide by it in their day to day life. Every day you are constantly making assessments on people based on the information you have, whether that’s in the context of a crime or otherwise. The justice system (in America especially) is not “fair” and does not treat guilt as the phrase “innocent until proven guilt…

>It is unreasonable and impractical to expect individuals to abide by it in their day to day life.

It is unreasonable and impractical to expect everyone to abide by it. It is not at all unreasonable and impractical for a particular individual (e.g. me) to abide by it.

It is unreasonable and impractical to expect that if I leave my house doors open when I'm at work that no one will ever steal anything from my house. It is not unreasonable and impractical for me to abide by the moral principle of not stealing when I see a house open day after day.

So I agree with you - I don't expect all of society to abide by the principle. Yet it doesn't somehow exonerate their behavior when they violate the principle.

>Many people do not have a clear understanding of what it takes to prove guilt in court (and also do not understand what can derail a conviction) and would be surprised to learn how difficult it can be in some situations where there is (to the layman) clear evidence.

In a comment further down you point out:

>Outside of the legal system “innocent until proven guilty” is a very common cause of the revictimisation of victims.

I think that's a cop out in response to a cop out. Yes, certainly some people (in my experience, a tiny number of people) will invoke "innocent until proven guilty" to avoid any kind of burden of responsibility to the victim. In the vast majority of times I've seen it invoked, it is someone pointing out that others are jumping to conclusions, and the evidence is slight, and often that one person's claims have much heavier weight than others. A not insignificant number of these (in my opinion) involve fighting back at a bias of sort (race, gender, class, etc) where one person is being given more weight to others.

When it comes to issues where the parties involved know one another (i.e. not someone commenting about a case on the Internet), people invoke it far, far more often to counter mob mentality and perceived biases than they do to avoid making a decision.

The legal meaning is irrelevant to most people who invoke it. I rarely see people (in real life, outside of message boards) saying "Well it hasn't been proven in court, so innocent until proven guilty". They apply it to situations in front of them, involving people they know. And they are saying "Really, I don't see strong evidence for it."

Now yes, at times the victims are revictimized. No one has solved that problem. In my life I've seen it way too many times that something bad happens to someone, they need someone to blame, to the point of constructing a narrative in their head that they believe, which is why people say "I don't doubt he/she believes his/her story, but I need to determine if it is true."

(Not talking about serious issues like rape, but I see this behavior from victims very often when, say, theft is involved).

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#69
post #53

Is it the responsibility of any project/startup to find out who the LPs are for a VC fund? Sometimes this information is not only inaccessible, it would be illegal for you to know. Especially in a case where - wait for it - a sovereign wealth fund might be involved. So... call me crazy, but I don’t think Leonardo DiCaprio did anything wrong here. I’m sure he’s used to rich a holes giving him money and trying to buddy…

I don't think the author necessarily says Leo did anything wrong, it was more of "How could Leo not know something was up."

Re: ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ film was also a real-life scam

#70
It's understandable that clubs pay celebs to show up, though it always blows my mind how much.

But for a person? Surely this can increase one's 'personal brand' - I guess - in some way, but really it's utterly sad. Literally paying people to hang out with you.

I don't worry much about ever being a billionaire, but that is one thing I did ponder: how hard it would be to tell the true friends from the clingers. So sad.

And $1B scam is not even a lot. Many 'national leaders' routinely take 10% of foreign direct investment right off the top. It happens in the open, clear as day, but there's hardly any reporting about it.

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