Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does this enterprise slur even mean ? Is it like saying a band sold out when they had a hit record? Do we only use undiscovered indie frameworks now?
It means it's everything but the kitchen sink: heavyweight, difficult to learn and use, and full of features you don't need. It has nothing to do with popularity being bad. In general that's good a thing, because support is better (and rails does have terrific support), but it does exert a feature-accretion force.
I Miss Rails
421–430 of 522 posts
Re: I Miss Rails
#422There are tons of JS stacks that exist right now - Sails, Adonis, etc. - but I feel they all miss having a hugely profitable business using them in production. Rails had 37signals use it for all their products - along with having DHH too. Right now you have FRAMEWORKS being used in production at big companies, so if you use React, Angular, etc. you know that you're in good company. I think it would be super interesti…
This is an example of the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. Just because Google wrote Angular, doesn’t mean it’s good.
Re: I Miss Rails
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
JS is not my first choice for many things but I still have to work with it often enough to know that most of your complaints about the language haven’t been a problem for years. It’s improved a great deal and is much better to work with lately—more so if you don’t install a library for everything under the sun (because you really don’t have to in order to be productive). There are valid complaints to levy against the…
> complaints about the language haven’t been a problem for years. If we're being fair, what you say is true only if you are starting a greenfield project.
I don't use scaffolding [if I can help it]—unless it's some I've set up and maintain myself (if I know I'm going to do a run of similar projects).
Normally I only do greenfield projects as their architecture and maintainability are highest priority due to the need for longevity. Plus I often find those systems rather heavy-and not just in JS.
Re: I Miss Rails
#424There are tons of JS stacks that exist right now - Sails, Adonis, etc. - but I feel they all miss having a hugely profitable business using them in production. Rails had 37signals use it for all their products - along with having DHH too. Right now you have FRAMEWORKS being used in production at big companies, so if you use React, Angular, etc. you know that you're in good company. I think it would be super interesti…
Re: I Miss Rails
#425I actually have gone back to writing server-rendered apps like it's 2012 and it's been wonderful. Server-rendered used to mean slow and clunky but I've found that using Go my page loads are super fast. The inter-page transitions can sting a little on really really slow connections, it's true. But users are much more willing to deal with them if they haven't first been subjected to a minutes-long spinner while the SPA…
>Server-rendered used to mean slow and clunky I don't get why everyone keeps saying this. Is it because of WordPress? In 2005 I used my own MVC framework with ORM and stuff. It was written in PHP. My pages had the usual generation time of 0.03 seconds. And that was with no specialized caching or any crazy optimizations. Even with no AJAX, page loading seemed instant, unless you connected to the server from across the…
one nit pick, what does "server-side rendering", and even "client-side rendering", even mean? The browser renders HTML, it's always client side and it's always outside of the scope of application code. Does "rendering" really mean template parsing?
Re: I Miss Rails
#426I've been using Django since I started 10 years ago. I argue that it was a great choice back then and it's _still_ the right choice even with the advent of the modern everything. If you are writing a website for a business, I see nearly no actual business case for using Node+SPA for nearly any kind of website you'd want to build. Especially in a business context, unless you are building a super ultra real time thing…
Re: I Miss Rails
#427I'll take a mildly unpopular opinion and say that I really despise code-gen-style web frameworks, like Rails or ASP.NET MVC or Django, and would rather reinvent the wheel than use them. I definitely see the appeal of these frameworks, but I feel that a side effect of having them is that there's a metric ton of code generated and you really have no idea how it works. I remember spending almost 30 minutes digging throu…
With that said, might it also be possible that there could be some drawbacks? Having worked in and with Clojure, I found the ecosystem incredibly immature. It's somewhere beyond arrogant - reckless comes to mind - for most engineers to do all their own plumbing for a web service. The odds that they'll manage to design someone easily long-term maintainable are slim. The chances of authorization, authentication, potential SQL injection, and a thousand other security things being handled well is effectively none - the Clojure ecosystem seems wildly ignorant of such things. The core philosophy of just composing the libraries you need into Ring means that anything you don't actively think of will be entirely neglected. This is a dangerous and unprofessional way to ship code that will be facing the real internet.
This stands in stark contrast to the level of consideration around maintenance and security that has gone into a modern, mature framework. Or a modern language where SAST is an option.
Again, you're completely correct. Doing low-level stuff feels absolutely amazing! The sense of control, of having your hands in the guts and the ability to do what you need without wasting time on bullshit magic, is heady and glorious. It's just perhaps worth considering that that magic can sometimes be incredibly valuable, well worth the tradeoff against the feeling of freedom.
Re: I Miss Rails
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
Laravel is definitely Rails inspired, but also takes inspiration from a lot of other frameworks (CodeIgniter, Symfony, .NET, etc).
I was just teasing, Laravel looks solid. It's also comforting to know that if you move from Laravel world to Rails, a lot is familiar out of the box. It's good for us developers and good for the industry. Which I can't say about js stack/elixir/Golang/Spring etc etc.
Symfony 4 however is wonderful, they modularised everything, kept backwards compatibility, properly deprecate things and it's fast, like really fast.
Re: I Miss Rails
#429Re: I Miss Rails
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
My personal guess on this enterprise would be things like Spring or .Net where everything has an interface instead of just do things like Rails.
Long time rails developer turned "enterprise". Spring-cloud now requires much less boilerplate and is easy to develop with using kotlin's syntactic sugar shortening code and making it more concise. Orm is kind of a failure and requires us to write some queries by hand into string literals, but at least it has it's own sql syntax to avoid engine dependence.