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I Miss Rails

chanind.github.io

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Re: I Miss Rails

#261

Post by tomc1985 »

peteforde wrote: post #252
tomc1985 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about that... maybe I'm just old but React provides very little of anything compelling other than shadow DOM and databinding. It seems like every opinion it has outside of those two very narrow areas is INSANE

The funniest part about the enthusiasm for React masochism is that the best parts of the library are better accomplished with a combination of Turbolinks 5 and Stimulus. Not a coincidence that they're all Rails extractions. For me, the more interesting question in all of this is where did this fervour for JS-and-the-way-down actually come from? My hypothesis is that it's the natural result of a huge mess of new talen…

I think it's that, and the general accessibility of Javascript. Before this JS craze you saw the same shit with PHP and Visual Basic, though for the most part people weren't trying to build and rebuild the same platforms nearly as much as now

Re: I Miss Rails

#262

Post by [deleted] »

tombert wrote: post #50

I'll take a mildly unpopular opinion and say that I really despise code-gen-style web frameworks, like Rails or ASP.NET MVC or Django, and would rather reinvent the wheel than use them. I definitely see the appeal of these frameworks, but I feel that a side effect of having them is that there's a metric ton of code generated and you really have no idea how it works. I remember spending almost 30 minutes digging throu…

[deleted]

Re: I Miss Rails

#264

Post by peteforde »

enraged_camel wrote: post #86
wefarrell wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agnostic of stack, SPAs provide a clear separation of concerns. The api layer is responsible for transforming data between the client and controlling access. The client is responsible for presenting the data structures provided by the api to the user, and turning user inputs into data structures that the api can consume.

Don’t forget interactivity and real-time feedback for user actions. SSR simply can’t provide that without lots of javascript thrown inside each template, and we all know what that leads to...

I urge/beg you to check out the Turbolinks 5 + StimulusJS libraries, which are by the same (Rails team) people, which is no coincidence.

https://youtu.be/SWEts0rlezA?t=203

Re: I Miss Rails

#265

Post by iguana »

0xADEADBEE wrote: post #122
koolba wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With TypeScript you can define a single set of interfaces shared by both your client side and server code. If you change an interface to return a different value or rename a member, you immediately know where it’s used and can update it in tandem. Static type checking let’s you know everywhere that something is used without a battery of tests running through your app. This takes 99% of the fear out of refactoring and…

I used Typescript from the get-go on a new project recently and it's slowed down both mine and my team's development velocity a lot. Time will tell if it's a smart decision but in terms of prototyping or spiking something, I'm picking Rails every time and I think based on my current experience I'd be apt to retrofit Typescript to an existing project rather than integrate it from the beginning. I don't suppose you cou…

I don't have a book recommendation for you (what helped me was the standard documentation and about a year of daily dev time), but an observation:

Your team is likely using an overly restrictive tsconfig.json. No-implicit-any, for example.

Make it less restrictive, and you then have typing and no penalty for punting on it until later.

If using an IDE, the effort into defining types is immediately rewarded with autocomplete for API/backend AND client code, and we even export the types for use by a Monaco editor inside an internal app.

Re: I Miss Rails

#266

Post by digitaltrees »

revskill wrote: post #68

Here's how i replace Rails with the "modern stack": - Compile Graphql schema into Typescript typings + Fragments for "Active Record" - React Hooks as controllers action. - React Suspense for HTML rendering. - Apollo for graphql caching - ExpressJS for middlewares. - @reach/router for routing. - @loadable/component for code splitting. - Serverless for API. I missed Rails, too. But i found that the "modern stack" is no…

Let’s talk in 6 months as those packages evolve and diverge. While rails core team does the work of maintaining all the packages as a consistent whole.

Re: I Miss Rails

#267

Post by jeremy_k »

zrail wrote: post #55
tombert wrote: post #50

I'll take a mildly unpopular opinion and say that I really despise code-gen-style web frameworks, like Rails or ASP.NET MVC or Django, and would rather reinvent the wheel than use them. I definitely see the appeal of these frameworks, but I feel that a side effect of having them is that there's a metric ton of code generated and you really have no idea how it works. I remember spending almost 30 minutes digging throu…

Rails auto generates very little these days unless you ask for it.

To note: been working on Rails for 6+ years.

I was reading the parent comment and some of the other comments about the mental model of a beginner. I suppose if you're first exposed to Rails and start using 'scaffold' it can generate a ton of code you'll need to grok. But once you understand the nuances of writing Rails its much faster and cleaner to just create files and go about your business. There is only 1 thing I ask Rails to generate for me and its database migrations; it handles adding the timestamp and placing it as the end of the folder, thats not something I care to think about myself.

Re: I Miss Rails

#268

Post by jaxn »

tomc1985 wrote: post #92
BillFranklin wrote: post #6

> if the modern equivalent of Rails already exists, please let me know! You're in luck. Rails 5.2.3 was released 20 hours ago. More seriously, I feel rails is still excellent and I'm happy to work with it every day. I'd be interested to hear more about what makes rails not modern? I find it a very productive framework. EDIT: If you're talking about missing a JS equivalent of rails, do you know about Loopback? https:/…

Rails is FANTASTIC! I work on a hybrid React-on-Rails application and working on the React portions is so. fucking. painful. Seriously the shit people come up with with this "tool" makes corporate-hack Java programmers look good. I am always taking the backend Rails-y tickets if I have the chance

We are doing Rails/Vue. Both sides are pleasant to work with. I prefer working with Vue, but don't see any reason to remove Rails from the backend.

(but yeah, ActionCable was a no-go. We use Pusher instead)

Re: I Miss Rails

#269

Post by epse »

laurentdc wrote: post #260

> I’m not suggesting that we give up React and es7 and go back to writing server-templated web-apps like it’s 2012 again. My team is still building server-templated web apps with Django, RoR, Laravel. It's just that most software we make is some sort of CRUD application and React/Redux feels like overengineering, and still a mess when it comes to SEO. Clients are happy and ultimately don't care. Should I be worried?

No. Your solution works and makes people happy. That's fine

Re: I Miss Rails

#270

Post by Jedi72 »

chessturk wrote: post #209
0xADEADBEE wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're fantastic and I hope the future is bright for them but I've had to pick Rails for a few projects over the last few months because the library support is so much more established. The more I get to use Phoenix, the more I am convinced it is the most well designed web framework there is, so I hope to use it a lot going forward.

Elixir/Erlang's emphasis on uptime/fault-tolerance/scalability/concurrency (admittedly at the cost of performance and the abstraction of a VM) is perfectly suited to web/mobile use-cases. On paper, Pheonix should be the default choice for large and small web/mobile MVC applications. I think the question of if that becomes the case is directly tied to adoption of Elixir.

The performance comparison matters if you start comparing nginx, and maybe even the Go/Rust frameworks, but it absolutely blows Rails out of the water for performance without sacrificing any of the high-level abstraction goodness that makes Rails appealing. No reason not to move to Elixir unless you cant hack functional programming IMO
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