EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#131

Post by jacobolus » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

Agustus wrote: post #117

boudin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still better than doing nothing. It also will promote materials that are a better fit for recycling.

In the case of banning plastic bags, certain areas have seen an uptick in feces in areas because the homeless were using the bags for defecation and sanitation. The ban he had an impact, detrimental to the point where a first world nation is on track to have preventable disease outbreaks. There are cost benefit analyses that should be done prior to saying that a ban is better than nothing.

Homeless sanitation is not independently sufficient justification to support heaps of littered disposable plastic bags everywhere.

There are many other possible ways to address this problem.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#132

Post by blibble » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #128

blibble wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is exactly what happened with the previous ban single use plastic bags were banned, so now instead people accumulate the more dense multi-use bags under their kitchen sink instead

Anecdotally, I see (a) lots of paper bags, and (b) lots of people carrying canvas tote bags, a decade after the plastic bag ban in SF.

if the retailers switched to using paper or canvas bags I can certainly believe that

however UK retailers swapped to selling heavier duty plastic bags instead

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#133

Post by jpindar » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

Luc wrote: post #78

I've seen these reusable cups at festivals: https://www.ecocupshop.co.uk/en/ There's a 1€ deposit but some people keep the cup as a memento. Another side effect is thieves breaking into the festival tent at night to steal the plastic pipes containing dirty cups (so they can get the deposit for them).

Those might make the high prices of drinks at some events less annoying since you get a souvenir.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#134

Post by vimy » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #120

Reading these comments makes me sad, but I am also beginning to understand the opposition to limiting carbon emissions. Introduce an initiative that is "obviously good". I mean, none of the commenters here will be disadvantaged by single-use plastic being banned. It is obviously better for the environment. Whichever way you look at it, it is an improvement on the current state of affairs. And yet, people will moan an…

>It is obviously better for the environment.

Except it isn't and plastic is for many uses the best material. Take glass for example.

Cons of Glass:

It breaks

It costs more to ship

It is more expensive to recycle

Glass takes twice as much energy to produce

More pollution is created in the manufacturing, shipping and recycling of glass

Glass creates more than 6 times the global warming gases than plastic

-------------------

Cons of plastic: Litter (but people throw glass away too)

Some plastics can leach chemicals

Some plastics contain PVCs

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#135

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

bubblewrap wrote: post #109

RobertoG wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning those items, presumably, will create incentives to find alternatives. If we are lucky, some ecologic friendly alternative that makes economic sense will appear and will extend outside the EU. If we are very lucky, that hypothetical alternative could be extended to other uses of plastics. The real problem is that plastics are just too convenient. We are just too comfortable to change anything. Applying evoluti…

The reality is that the replacements will use up more energy than the plastic things. For example ceramic cups require more energy for transport, and chemicals for washing up. How do we know the replacements will use more energy? Because they are more expensive. If they weren't, they would already be used now instead of plastics.

[deleted]

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#136

Post by thatfrenchguy » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #32

incog-neato wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not: Fast food: metal cutlery at the restaurant that gets washed and reused. Take away: your own cutlery at home.

And what if you have motor control issues that makes it impossible to wash cutlery to any standard of cleanliness? I've said it before, and I've said it again: these anti-plastic laws are actively hostile to people with disabilities.

Dishwasher ?

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#137

Post by sschueller » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

I'm going to keep saying it. The issue is trash disposal especially in third world countries. You can't just pile trash on landfills.

I'm countries like Switzerland were most trash is incinerated to generate electricity, getting rid of plastic bags has little impact if not increase overall CO2 use since a alternate bag uses way more CO2 to be produced.

One stat stated that a woven bag would need to be used 7000 times to offset the CO2 vs the amount of CO2 used to make a plastic bag.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#138

Post by jpindar » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #35

randyrand wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you're on the go? Eating as a passenger in a car, etc.

I can fathom having a portable case for a set of silverware, that you clean when you get home.

They exist.

https://www.amazon.com/Tableware-Camping-Tools-Portable-Mult...

I've heard it's not unusual in some places for people to do this with chopsticks.

https://www.amazon.com/Aluminum-Stainless-Folding-Chopsticks...

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#139

Post by jlg23 » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

normalperson wrote: post #53

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

1) Where did you get that number from?

2) How do you expect people to implement laws to protect the environment if you don't start with yourself?

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#140

Post by jacobolus » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #73

happymellon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is public hygiene, like public toilets being available. Not handing out plastic bags to poop in, wrapping poop in plastic is the worst option.

I would love to see more public bathrooms that are well maintained and genuinely accessible to the homeless. The public library is often the only obvious source for a public bathroom available to absolutely anyone and homeless people are frequently asked to leave the library for various reasons and sometimes banned from it. But way to go to completely miss the point. Disposable plastic bags have myriad other uses, su…

If people need certain necessities to live, the way to help them best is not to provide them a random assortment of free (subsidized) materials without consideration of the negative side effects of the subsidy, but to directly give them money.