EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#101

Post by smileypete » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #29

vimy wrote: post #5

The western world is responsible for 1,25 % of all ocean plastic pollution. Europe is only 0,28 %![0] There is no need to ban single-use plastics in the West. It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort, will cause a rise in food poisoning deaths and are worse for the environment.[1] When you mention this, people reply we should set an example and other countries will follow. The idea t…

What if .5% is the biggest single chunk of plastic use you can eliminate in your sphere of influence? Should you: a) Do nothing, because it's "only" 0.5% b) Eliminate 0.5% because it's something you can do. > It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort Oh, right, I see. Yeah, I mean you'll be comfortable for the next thirty years. Who cares about the next generation, am I right?

There's a huge problem with unsorted or poor quality recyling or waste electronics being illegally exported from first world countries [1] and ending up in landfills or just dumped in piles, across the world, fix that first, then move on to something else.

Banning tiny amount of single use plastic is low hanging but infinitesimally small fruit however, and the narratives created around it just conveniently distract from much bigger problems.

[1] https://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-tons-of-uk-plastic-d... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRQLilXLAIU

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#102

Post by johnzim » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

Not that I'm especially surprised but the concept of subsidiarity isn't worth much these days is it?

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#103

Post by vgoh1 » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

normalperson wrote: post #53

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

The laws, technology, and culture associated with green initiatives, are a huge undertaking. When a country leads with these, they make it easier for others to follow.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#104

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #62

Brakenshire wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because there is a health implication there, the possibility that people could get dehydrated and not have easy access to bottled water.

There are also substantial health implications to eliminating plastic cutlery, cups, etc. We may be largely oblivious to it now and we may fail to see the connection between the cutlery going and an uptick in illnesses after the change. The California bag ban slightly preceded the uptick in "medieval diseases" in California, which has since spread from Southern California to other cities (possibly by homeless people…

[deleted]

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#105

Post by driverdan » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

saluki wrote: post #92

ineedasername wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I've never seen it in the US, except in the form of wooden coffee stirrers.

You see them some in the US, there are also some that are that are made from corn. They feel/flex like plastic but are biodegradable.

The ones that look and feel like plastic are essentially plastic. The conditions it takes to get them to break down don't happen in a landfill.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#106

Post by fileeditview » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

Brakenshire wrote: post #27

progfix wrote: post #20

Why no plastic bottles as well? The vast majority of plastic I use is from bottles.

Probably because there is a health implication there, the possibility that people could get dehydrated and not have easy access to bottled water.

I remember a time when (almost) all bottled water was in glass bottles.. didn't seem to be a problem back then and everyone seemed hydrated.

I also remember when the plastic bottles were hyped because they were so much easier to carry.. not sure it was worth it.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#107

Post by rak00n » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

saluki wrote: post #92

ineedasername wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I've never seen it in the US, except in the form of wooden coffee stirrers.

You see them some in the US, there are also some that are that are made from corn. They feel/flex like plastic but are biodegradable.

They usually come with this warning that they are only biodegradable on specialized facility.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#108

Post by baq » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

amyjess wrote: post #32

incog-neato wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not: Fast food: metal cutlery at the restaurant that gets washed and reused. Take away: your own cutlery at home.

And what if you have motor control issues that makes it impossible to wash cutlery to any standard of cleanliness? I've said it before, and I've said it again: these anti-plastic laws are actively hostile to people with disabilities.

You seem to think there are no alternatives. There are.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#109

Post by bubblewrap » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #84

normalperson wrote: post #53

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

Banning those items, presumably, will create incentives to find alternatives. If we are lucky, some ecologic friendly alternative that makes economic sense will appear and will extend outside the EU. If we are very lucky, that hypothetical alternative could be extended to other uses of plastics. The real problem is that plastics are just too convenient. We are just too comfortable to change anything. Applying evoluti…

The reality is that the replacements will use up more energy than the plastic things. For example ceramic cups require more energy for transport, and chemicals for washing up.

How do we know the replacements will use more energy? Because they are more expensive. If they weren't, they would already be used now instead of plastics.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#110

Post by Negitivefrags » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

throwaway5752 wrote: post #81

normalperson wrote: post #53

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

First, comments like yours is how nothing ever gets done. Second, you use citation-free statistics that are misleading. How much plastic waste from Asia is from "recycled" US and European ("first world", to use your dog whistle) plastics? edit: to repeat myself, How much plastic waste from Asia is from "recycled" US and European ("first world", to use your dog whistle) plastics? - the research that 90% of the plastic…

> First, comments like yours is how nothing ever gets done.

The politician's fallacy, is a logical fallacy of the form:

1. We must do something

2. This is something

3. Therefore, we must do this.