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Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

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Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#31

Post by notacoward »

piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

> shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook?

Indeed they should. This is basically like going after the phone company because somebody else was using number prefixes as a proxy for race. Even though this is a fundamental property of any system that doesn't explicitly preclude such targeting, Facebook already took steps to limit this type of discrimination in ads for housing or credit. That was good enough for the ACLU, Fair Housing Alliance, and others who have a sincere interest in the matter. It should have been good enough for HUD too, which brings us to the real crux of the matter.

Sufficiency of the new limits on targeting was not the sticking point between Facebook and HUD. The sticking point was HUD's demand for all user data, without any safeguards. It's a fishing expedition. What would HUD do with that data? It's not a stretch to believe they'd use it to further this administration's own discriminatory agenda. HUD is not fighting against discrimination at all. They're on the other side of that battle. Rejecting their demand was IMO the right thing to do.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#32

Post by LarryDarrell »

We have regulations on the books that are there as a result of 100 years of painful human experience.

Wave a computer screen in someone's face and all of a sudden it's a different plane of existence and some people feel like these laws don't apply. I'm glad to see there is finally being some push back.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#33

Post by bilbo0s »

mastax wrote: post #27
piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

42 U.S. Code § 3604. ...it shall be unlawful— (c) To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap,familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discr…

Yep.

>or cause to be made...

Key words here.

Sure, the government should be going after individual advertisers too, but selective prosecution or not, Facebook is clearly in violation.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#34

Post by reaperducer »

ams6110 wrote: post #5
iscrewyou wrote: post #3

They were accused before. I thought this was old news. Weren't they being accused of showing certain results to a certain demographic because the advertisers got to call the shots on who saw the ads? This is them getting charged. I think there is a distinction. Now lawyers are involved.

That's fine for some things. E.g. showing an ad for specific hair care products to black people. Not OK for housing/rental ads, credit/mortgage, etc. Facebook should have known better from the start and never enabled that kind of targeting for those types of ads.

Facebook should have known better from the start and never enabled that kind of targeting for those types of ads.

If only Facebook has some money it wasn't using, it could hire a bunch of lawyers to look at its products and processes to make sure they are legal and ethical and lawful. Some kind of a team of lawyers. They could even made it a department of some sort.

"Move fast and break laws."

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#35

Post by bilbo0s »

bluedino wrote: post #29
legohead wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doesn't have to allow you to target demographics. If you create an ad, mark it as type "housing", then things like race and wealth shouldn't be an option to target. It's illegal. Using your analogy, when you buy a hammer you don't tell the cashier it's for murder.

You're targeting a demographic with every type of ad. Sure, the radio station doesn't have checkboxes of who hears your ad, you just pick the radio station you want your target to be listening too. Same goes for billboards. Suburbs? Subway? The highway 2 towns over? Print media, TV time...the list goes on.

Well, they're free to litigate that question if they think it will help them. That's the beauty of our legal system.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#36

Post by daenz »

charliesharding wrote: post #2

Hot on the heels of their announcement yesterday. The irony is sweet

It's all PR. If a company knows some bad press is about to resurface, they'll try to dominate the news with their own good press. People think it's them being virtuous, but it's all a game.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#37

Post by whatok »

bluedino wrote: post #29
legohead wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook doesn't have to allow you to target demographics. If you create an ad, mark it as type "housing", then things like race and wealth shouldn't be an option to target. It's illegal. Using your analogy, when you buy a hammer you don't tell the cashier it's for murder.

You're targeting a demographic with every type of ad. Sure, the radio station doesn't have checkboxes of who hears your ad, you just pick the radio station you want your target to be listening too. Same goes for billboards. Suburbs? Subway? The highway 2 towns over? Print media, TV time...the list goes on.

The sticking point is that those advertisements are made to the public and everyone has relatively the same equal access to them. Targeted advertisements through social media completely remove any semblance of equal access.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#38

Post by will_brown »

bilbo0s wrote: post #33
mastax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

42 U.S. Code § 3604. ...it shall be unlawful— (c) To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap,familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discr…

Yep. > or cause to be made... Key words here. Sure, the government should be going after individual advertisers too, but selective prosecution or not, Facebook is clearly in violation.

>Sure, the government should be going after individual advertisers too

They probably will.

But in this instance it’s much more appropriate the end FBs illegal business practices, rather than continuing to go after ad creators in perpetuity. Turn off the water and fix the leak instead of catching the drops, similar theory to local police flipping low level drug dealers to go after the suppliers.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#39

Post by syntheticcdo »

bilbo0s wrote: post #33
mastax wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

42 U.S. Code § 3604. ...it shall be unlawful— (c) To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap,familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discr…

Yep. > or cause to be made... Key words here. Sure, the government should be going after individual advertisers too, but selective prosecution or not, Facebook is clearly in violation.

Exactly, and the net effect of a single action against Facebook is greater than hundreds of actions against individual discriminatory landlords.Facebook can clean up it's act and prevent (to the best of its ability) legally discriminatory ads, which would deal a huge blow to those individuals who would have committed future discrimination.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#40

Post by empath75 »

reaperducer wrote: post #24
piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was used to kill someone. Your analogy is faulty. People, governments, and law enforcement agencies go after gun stores that sell guns that are used to kill people.

They're actually not allowed to do that unless the sale was illegal.
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