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Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

abc.net.au

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Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#61

Post by [deleted] »

jacques_chester wrote: post #54
mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Look. It's a stupid bill. So garishly stupid that it can blind a boulder. So vapidly moronic that bits of ooze collected by clams are more intelligent. It's so bad that astronauts on the ISS passing over Canberra need to shield their heads with lead so the radioactive idiocy doesn't fry them. But don't kid yourself: Australian citizenship is profoundly valuable. I would not pass it up lightly. I was born to it and I…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#62

Post by mastazi »

shitloadofbooks wrote: post #55
KorematsuFred wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true ? There is no way I am hiring an Australian citizen then.

The answer is "it's complicated." See https://github.com/alfiedotwtf/AABillFAQ

Thank you for providing a better source - reality is more nuanced than what most news outlets want you to believe, but unfortunately hiring practices are influenced by public discourse, and unfortunately the prevalent message out there is "don't hire Australians"

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#63

Post by dragonwriter »

12298765 wrote: post #56
Sabinus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if the police in America wasn't armed to the teeth and scared of being blown away by armed populace they wouldn't act like they do. For a country who keeps guns to hold governments accountable, your government is just a unaccountable as everyone else; if not more so.

We've also been around for longer than anyone else with a modern democracy, and our goal is longevity of a sustainable relationship between the people and their government. We have some issues in our country right now, but I have a good feeling we'll get them worked out in the next few years. Many of our laws and rights are in place not for short term feelings about safety between people and police, but for long term…

> We've also been around for longer than anyone else with a modern democracy

No, we haven't. In fact, we copied it largely from the UK. (We didn't like the fact that as a colony we didn't get representation in the national legislature or the full range of rights citizens in the UK itself had, but, hey, the US does the same thing. Initially, and still partially, even to it's capital district.

We've got the oldest surviving written Constitution, sure, but that's a different issue.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#64

Post by jacques_chester »

microcolonel wrote: post #58
jacques_chester wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look. It's a stupid bill. So garishly stupid that it can blind a boulder. So vapidly moronic that bits of ooze collected by clams are more intelligent. It's so bad that astronauts on the ISS passing over Canberra need to shield their heads with lead so the radioactive idiocy doesn't fry them. But don't kid yourself: Australian citizenship is profoundly valuable. I would not pass it up lightly. I was born to it and I…

> But don't kid yourself: Australian citizenship is profoundly valuable. Relative to what other citizenship?

It depends on your criteria. But it's a wealthy country with a high standard of living, relatively safe and stable, with well-established democratic and legal systems, has relatively low corruption, safety nets for health and welfare, subsidised education and if you avoid the crocodiles it can be very pleasant in parts.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#65

Post by cma »

otachack wrote: post #59
mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

There's so much ambiguity in this, though. Can't the complying Australian employee simply nudge his/her coworker and say "hey, patch this later" and then it's just a game of back and forth with the Australian government not having their way in the end?

Australia could offer a reward to employees that ratted out employees that did that. Then other countries with have to outlaw accepting the reward.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#66

Post by jacques_chester »

otachack wrote: post #59
mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

There's so much ambiguity in this, though. Can't the complying Australian employee simply nudge his/her coworker and say "hey, patch this later" and then it's just a game of back and forth with the Australian government not having their way in the end?

I wouldn't advise this. Defying or subverting a lawful order can itself be a crime and you can bet the Crown Prosecutor and the Judge have seen far more attempts than you have.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#67

Post by manigandham »

mastazi wrote: post #62
shitloadofbooks wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is "it's complicated." See https://github.com/alfiedotwtf/AABillFAQ

Thank you for providing a better source - reality is more nuanced than what most news outlets want you to believe, but unfortunately hiring practices are influenced by public discourse, and unfortunately the prevalent message out there is "don't hire Australians"

No, business hiring is influenced by risk and value. Having any of this language is a risk that's just not worth it, especially because of how ambiguous and surreptitious this is.

It's up to the citizens and their government to rectify such poor legislation.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#68

Post by opportune »

mastazi wrote: post #62
shitloadofbooks wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is "it's complicated." See https://github.com/alfiedotwtf/AABillFAQ

Thank you for providing a better source - reality is more nuanced than what most news outlets want you to believe, but unfortunately hiring practices are influenced by public discourse, and unfortunately the prevalent message out there is "don't hire Australians"

It might be cheaper foor a business to just not hire Australians than to hire a lawyer and dedicate bizdev time to figuring out the intricacies and nuance

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#69

Post by mastazi »

otachack wrote: post #59
mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

There's so much ambiguity in this, though. Can't the complying Australian employee simply nudge his/her coworker and say "hey, patch this later" and then it's just a game of back and forth with the Australian government not having their way in the end?

There are many scenarios where the Australian Government ends up not having it their way. For example a very likely scenario is: your commit which contains a backdoor goes to code review and then someone asks you "what is this". In theory you would say that you are not allowed to explain for legal reasons. Yet that commit is not going to be deployed.

(edited for clarity)

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#70

Post by chii »

mastazi wrote: post #51
KorematsuFred wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true ? There is no way I am hiring an Australian citizen then.

"For example, Australia’s law enforcement could compel Apple to provide access to a customer’s iPhone and all communications made on it without the user’s awareness or consent. An engineer involved would, in theory, be unable to tell their boss about this, or risk a jail sentence." Source: Sydney Morning Herald https://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/dangerous-o... That would be a 5-year jail sentence appare…

I believe that is an incorrect interpretation of the law.

The govt can compell an entity to assist in making encrypted information available. But the entity in question is not the individual employee, but the company who owns the product or service.

If you're under the employment (i.e., not a contractor), you can't be an entity, and the employer will definitely know if they've been compelled.

But I do agree the law is stupid and erodes all trust from software owned by an Australian company.

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