Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#51

Post by mastazi » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:40 PM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #38

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Is this true ? There is no way I am hiring an Australian citizen then.

"For example, Australia’s law enforcement could compel Apple to provide access to a customer’s iPhone and all communications made on it without the user’s awareness or consent. An engineer involved would, in theory, be unable to tell their boss about this, or risk a jail sentence."

Source: Sydney Morning Herald https://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/dangerous-o...

That would be a 5-year jail sentence apparently:

"The Australian government could demand web developers to deliver spyware and software developers to push malicious updates, all under the cloak of “national security.” The penalty for speaking about these government orders—which are called technical assistance requests (TAR), technical assistance notices (TAN), and technical capability notices (TCN)—is five years in prison."

Source: EFF https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/09/australian-government-...

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#52

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:41 PM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #38

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Is this true ? There is no way I am hiring an Australian citizen then.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#53

Post by dreamcompiler » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:43 PM UTC

kdtsh wrote: post #21

dreamcompiler wrote: post #6

I was about ready to move all my email over to Fastmail before this happened. But not now.

For what it’s worth, email is not a private protocol/platform - some degree of encryption-at-rest and privacy-respecting SOPs can give services like Fastmail a fairly good screen against private malicious actors, but you should never count on email as a means of communication to have any decent way of protecting you from state surveillance, especially when you live under the jurisdiction of the state surveilling you.…

I'm aware. It's the principle of the thing that bothers me. I'd love to do business with Fastmail but I don't want my communications flowing through a surveillance state that has no due process.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#54

Post by jacques_chester » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Look.

It's a stupid bill.

So garishly stupid that it can blind a boulder. So vapidly moronic that bits of ooze collected by clams are more intelligent. It's so bad that astronauts on the ISS passing over Canberra need to shield their heads with lead so the radioactive idiocy doesn't fry them.

But don't kid yourself: Australian citizenship is profoundly valuable.

I would not pass it up lightly. I was born to it and I am enormously grateful to have it.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#55

Post by shitloadofbooks » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #38

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Is this true ? There is no way I am hiring an Australian citizen then.

The answer is "it's complicated." See https://github.com/alfiedotwtf/AABillFAQ

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#56

Post by 12298765 » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

Sabinus wrote: post #36

tracker1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. actually goes a step further... the only rights the constitution actually spells out are the rights of government. Most encroachments have been under the guise of "interstate commerce" or "taxation" in general... > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. As to the bill of rights, so long…

Maybe if the police in America wasn't armed to the teeth and scared of being blown away by armed populace they wouldn't act like they do. For a country who keeps guns to hold governments accountable, your government is just a unaccountable as everyone else; if not more so.

We've also been around for longer than anyone else with a modern democracy, and our goal is longevity of a sustainable relationship between the people and their government.

We have some issues in our country right now, but I have a good feeling we'll get them worked out in the next few years.

Many of our laws and rights are in place not for short term feelings about safety between people and police, but for long term safety of the people from a tyrannical government. And that tyrannical government might take hundreds of years to begin to form in a democracy... But the bill of rights and ability of the people to feel secure without their government's support, keeps the government from getting too power-hungry or separating too far from the will of the people.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#57

Post by jacques_chester » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:47 PM UTC

KorematsuFred wrote: post #38

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Is this true ? There is no way I am hiring an Australian citizen then.

I haven't seen a compelling argument that it has extra-territorial effect; on my reading of the amendments it doesn't.

Extending your intelligence laws to cover individuals residing in other countries, who might also be citizens or permanent residents of those countries, can make for awkward dinner table discussion in diplomatic settings.

So hiring Australians working outside of Australia should be OK.

Of course, I'm not a lawyer. Or a spook. Or a diplomat.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#58

Post by microcolonel » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:48 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #54

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

Look. It's a stupid bill. So garishly stupid that it can blind a boulder. So vapidly moronic that bits of ooze collected by clams are more intelligent. It's so bad that astronauts on the ISS passing over Canberra need to shield their heads with lead so the radioactive idiocy doesn't fry them. But don't kid yourself: Australian citizenship is profoundly valuable. I would not pass it up lightly. I was born to it and I…

> But don't kid yourself: Australian citizenship is profoundly valuable.

Relative to what other citizenship?

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#59

Post by otachack » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:48 PM UTC

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

There's so much ambiguity in this, though. Can't the complying Australian employee simply nudge his/her coworker and say "hey, patch this later" and then it's just a game of back and forth with the Australian government not having their way in the end?

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#60

Post by tomlu » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 11:48 PM UTC

mastazi wrote: post #30

I have migrated to Australia many years ago and I have recently become eligible to become a citizen. However I’ve heard stories of tech companies refusing to hire Australians because of the AA Bill, so I’m holding it off for now. The problem seems to be the provision that a tech worker can be coerced by the Australian Government into creating a backdoor, and they are not authorised to disclose it to their employer. I…

I have Australian citizenship, but fortunately I live abroad so I would just refuse. Good luck with that extradition numbnuts :)