Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

blog.nuclino.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 98 posts

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#61

Post by coldcode »

wlesieutre wrote: post #8

Because it's cheap. Less walls to build, more employees packed on to a floor. Do you lose more money than you're saving due to decreased productivity? Maybe. But that's hard to prove, and "This office proposal is $X million cheaper because we can lease three fewer floors" is very straightforward.

Two jobs ago we were crammed into open office like sardines. The city even complained that they gave the company permission to build the buildings based on X occupants, but we had 2X. Some people had to park a mile away from the offices on a street. Yet the city wanted the tax revenue and looked the other way.

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#62

Post by saberience »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #56
saberience wrote: post #44

Every time this topic comes up there are a bunch of HN people saying open-plan is "clearly the worst" and that they want cubicles back. Note: this is hardly scientific. It's just your personal anecdote, ok, you don't like being around many other people and would prefer a cubicle or private office. That's fine. However, don't discount the fact that other people exist that, gasp, actually like open-plan offices. Like m…

I like bantering and chatting too, but I definitely don’t think it’s that conducive towards me being a productive engineer. Sometimes it’s nice being able to freely walk about and bounce ideas off others, and I’m sure this has resulted in some positive benefits, but 70+% of the time I really just need to go heads down on something and not be distracted. Always being near people who are talking is very distracting. As…

The open-plan areas at my company are kept limited in size. Our area seats about a max of 14 people and right now we have 10 people. Everyone has their own movable standing desk and the company provides pretty good noise-cancelling headphones if you want.

Given the limited amount of people and decent sized area, there is a good amount of space between desks and the noise level never really gets that high since there aren't really that many people around.

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#64

Post by crankylinuxuser »

loa-in-backup wrote: post #55
drofmij wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can slack off just as easily in the office as I could at home. :D or work just as hard at home as in the office.

You're lucky. I automated my deployments and test analysis, which were the most time consuming tasks (sequential process, with few quirks along the way) as a developer. This gave me reliably 30-40 minute forced breaks. Soon I got notices that there were complaints that I do not conform to the office norms, and that apparently I "sleep instead of working", and people "ask if they can work like I do" (never got any fur…

If you automate your job, DONT show it. Use it and hide it, unless your job is explicitly automation engineer or thereabouts.

Most places don't value the work you saved via automation. It's the company's gain; it shouldn't be yours!

And shame on you for not cranking the gear next to your computer keeping it working! /s Remember, the appearance of work matters more than actual work for almost every employee.

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#65

Post by jiveturkey »

I am so tired of this article. As far as HN goes, this is the new bi-weekly 'should I work at a startup?' post. As far as the general blogosphere (that's still a thing, yes?) goes, it's the latest click attractor.

We all know by now why open-plan offices dominate. Cost. We don't need to belabor the point.

This specific article is particularly annoying:

> The reasoning behind the idea of an open office is simple and makes sense in theory: fewer physical barriers – more communication and collaboration.

The author knows damn well that isn't the case. The way he presents this false statement is annoying af. It's not setup as a false assumption to be torn down (which he proceeds to do), it's setup as an actually true statement. It's insulting to the reader because, nobody is so misinformed at this point in the game.

He then goes on to speak from a position of authority on the history of the open office plan, which of course he gets wrong. Wilkinson didn't create an open office for Google, he created glass-walled cubes.

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#66

Post by colordrops »

maxxxxx wrote: post #46
colordrops wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX uses tightly packed open plan.

Even the people who do the hard engineering? In most companies the number of people who do that work is pretty small.

Yes, specifically engineering.

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#67

Post by jiveturkey »

deathanatos wrote: post #47
jordache wrote: post #32

it's all anecdotal opinions

No, it isn't; there have been studies done on open office floorplans, and they come to the same, obvious conclusion: they're bad on any metric you care to measure them on, except the one the article points out: if you ignore the productivity loss and all the other costs, they're cheaper. From the Wikipedia article on open floor plans, > A systematic survey of research upon the effects of open-plan offices found frequ…

The cited studies all date circa 2011. But open office was trending well before then, and studies were done before then. For example, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02724...

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#68

Post by paddy_m »

hmottestad wrote: post #57

I have my own office. Very happy with this! Everyone where I work has an office, so not that special here. Where I worked before I fought tooth and nail to get an office, by the time I was leaving I had the smallest office in the building crammed in with 2 others, while other (non-developers) had offices twice as big all for themselves. Management wanted to cram 10 people into an office space the size of the office f…

Where do you work? Are they hiring?

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#69

Post by nateroling »

floren wrote: post #12

At my previous employer, I worked in an office with real walls and a real solid wood door, in a cubicle with a sliding plastic door, in a cubicle with no door, and in a couple of larger open areas with between zero and three other people sharing the space. The real office was by far the best, but having a cubicle with a couple cabinets and a sliding door was almost as good. I've experienced an "open plan" setup that…

I found one picture of the Unix Room, on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rob_pike/status/896161131894419457

Re: Open-plan office is the worst. Why can't we kill it?

#70

Post by jiveturkey »

TheTruth1234 wrote: post #31
jdsully wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That office is mostly empty space, and with all the effort to noise damp one has to ask - why bother? Just add offices at that point. At Microsoft you could always chat in the halls and people would just close their doors.

Did you read the part about 'Library Rules'? It's a cultural leap, but that would make all the difference. Christ, I'm sitting in an open plan office right now with two telephone conversations going on in my right ear. Thank the hardware overlords for headphones ...

That office plan, and 'Library Rules', are particularly stupid in a world of lack of thought. That is, it's worse than just not thinking about it at all.

3-5 people in the office at any given day? Just build offices, christ.

One of the founders must have had a particular itch to scratch is all, and it has cost the company money so that they could have the worst of all worlds

The 'Library Rules' are dumb because one of the prime reasons you need to make noise in an open office is to share a screen with someone, as you collaborate or problem solve or whatever. This is hard to do if you have to move to a quiet room because you can't move your monitor setup with you, or have the comfort and access of the things at your desk.

Even non-code discussions are easier at your own desk, with kbd and mouse for notes vs laptop and trackpad.

Not being able to talk above a whisper, or at all, at your own desk is a disaster.

Post reply on HN