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Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

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Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#51
post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

>Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? If a company provides products/services to someone with the knowledge those products/services will be used for a crime...then yes. For example it’s legal for an arms dealer to sell a gun, but illegal to sell a gun if the seller knows the gun is being purchased with the intent of being used in a crime. Here what you have is Salesforce w…

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Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#52
post #17
post #4

It's impossible to evaluate the legitimacy of this without more technical details. "Providing customized database tools" could mean all sorts of things.

Salesforce allegedly helped them with their "trafficker and pimp database". On one hand, that's Salesforce doing their job well. On the other, seems like they would know what's going on.

I mean, I doubt the criminals are using HUMAN_TRAFFIC_ROUTE and PIMP_QUOTA as column names. Past a certain point the logistics of a criminal enterprise looks just as generic as any other corp; It's kinda easy to see how Salesforce could be fooled

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#53
post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

> Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? No, but what is hinted at in the complaint is that Salesforce did some kind of custom integration for Backpage: > The women sued Salesforce Tuesday in San Francisco state court, claiming billionaire Marc Benioff’s company knowingly supported Backpage by providing customized database tools to market and remarket prostitutes to “pimps,…

If on the other hand they were actually building features designed to keep more pimps on the platform (not sure what that would look like for pimps specifically vs. other Salesforce use cases, but just hypothetically)

Yeah, I have mixed feelings about this article. I've read a number of things that suggest that Backpage was better for women, allowing them to market themselves, protect their safety, etc.

I'm for the decriminalization of sex work -- as described in the book "Working: My life as a prostitute" by Dolores French. She makes the point that legalization usually means regulation and it winds up being just as bad as or worse than being pimped. It winds up being done to benefit male clients at the expense of female sex workers, basically.

So I can easily see a situation where, in a world where the current system typically exploits female sex workers, trying to increase sales as your stated goal could deepen the problems of women who are already victims.

If you are against sex work, please try to help women access other work safely and at a living wage/"equal pay" (instead of or at least in addition to preaching about your opinions that sex work is a bad thing and simply shouldn't be tolerated). Women wind up trapped in part because it pays well and they often have little to no viable alternatives. If you aren't actively working in some way to help make it possible for women to adequately support themselves some other way, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I spent nearly six years homeless. There was no shortage of men offering to give me a few bucks to sleep with them. Meanwhile, I was mostly failing to get taken seriously in my attempts to earn income some other way.

There are reasons why I was able to still say "no" in the face of tremendous circumstantial pressure, but it made me very aware that a lot of women simply don't have enough wherewithal to just say "no" themselves. (There is some truth to the idea that you need a middle class income to be able to afford a middle class morality.)

I was briefly acquainted with another homeless woman whose solution was to move in with some guy she had just met in order to get back into housing. She apparently only spent a few days on the street because of making this choice.

It's perhaps a more polite form of prostitution to call him your boyfriend and not charge by the hour, but I've thought a whole lot about it and I would much rather charge by the hour than move in with some man for his money and wind up probably essentially being his prisoner. This goes double in the case of a stranger I've just met and know nothing about. Wow. That idea just scares the hell out of me.

Edit: Just for the record, I'm also against UBI, in addition to being against "legalization"/regulation of sex work.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#54
post #17
post #4

It's impossible to evaluate the legitimacy of this without more technical details. "Providing customized database tools" could mean all sorts of things.

Salesforce allegedly helped them with their "trafficker and pimp database". On one hand, that's Salesforce doing their job well. On the other, seems like they would know what's going on.

That would depend a great deal on what the database looked like. A "trafficker and pimp database" could easily look like any other CRM contact list.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#55
post #3

I wonder whom did Salesforce annoy enough to warrant a media smear campaign against them.

I'm sorry but this sounds too much like conspiratorial thinking -- all bloomberg reporting on the lawsuit and other controversies surrounding the company (which are not that controversial by the way). And what you are saying in response is that it's a hit piece.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#56
post #27

Since it wasn't mentioned in the bloomberg article, whoever has been paying attention knows that shutting down backpage has made sex workers less safe and more dependent on pimps. Prostitution should be completely legal and brought into the light, not pushed into the shadows.

The issue of sex work seems only tangentially related to human trafficking. Prostitution should be legal (and regulated), but human trafficking really shouldn’t be.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? If a company provides products/services to someone with the knowledge those products/services will be used for a crime...then yes. For example it’s legal for an arms dealer to sell a gun, but illegal to sell a gun if the seller knows the gun is being purchased with the intent of being used in a crime. Here what you have is Salesforce w…

"the facts suggest SalesForce was well aware of backpages business practices and activities" source?

The article we are commenting on...

>“Salesforce knew the scourge of sex trafficking because it sought publicity for trying to stop it," according to the complaint.

Allegedly salesforce had a PR campaign against human trafficking and prostitution and knew backpage was in the business of facilitating the same when it elected to do business with backpage and that their software would specifically be used to facilitate this part of the business.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#58
post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

>Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? If a company provides products/services to someone with the knowledge those products/services will be used for a crime...then yes. For example it’s legal for an arms dealer to sell a gun, but illegal to sell a gun if the seller knows the gun is being purchased with the intent of being used in a crime. Here what you have is Salesforce w…

A bunch of Salesforce devs are hired to work on a human trafficking site. Do they all shrug and keep working? Or does Salesforce perhaps keep a special team of devs who are happy to participate in illegal actions?

I doubt the conspiracy angle here and think someone would have talked. Either the site as coded didn't have any apparent links to trafficking or Salesforce didn't participate beyond some unknowing consultation that they would give to anyone who asked.

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