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Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

bloomberg.com

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Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#41

Post by montecarl »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #34
hajile wrote: post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

Not the best delivery, but I think the question has to be asked. How much use does a tool take for the blame of those who misuse it? We would all laugh at an article entitled "Criminals used PENCIL AND PAPER in dastardly crime to traffic women" or "telephones" or even "email." Obviously the other extreme exists, when a tech company knowingly caters to an immoral regime, which is part of why I reject this blurring so…

I generally don't like the idea of blaming tool makers. However, this is a great example of a tech company catering to an immoral regime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#43

Post by peterwwillis »

On the one hand, they're probably not going to be seriously held accountable for supporting sex trafficking. Best case, the CEO gets uprooted, or they get a menial fine. Legislation to support bigger consequences would be great.

On the other hand, SESTA/FOSTA has had a chilling effect on any sexuality on any platform in the US. There's Facebook events for burlesque shows that are being removed by Facebook because the word "sexy" is included in the description. And non-profits that try to promote safer sex, support people in abusive relationships, etc are removed from social media or have their websites revoked because they have "sex" in the title.

Where's the middle ground? How can we create consequences for companies that act unethically without them then banishing all sex-related content?

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#44

Post by PSZD »

tarsinge wrote: post #31
Kaveren wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are complaining about someone donating to a children's hospital and being credited for it?

Not talking about Benioff but yes I can complain. If you are very wealthy you have to contribute back to society, that's not a thing to admire but to require. And if you donate only a small percent of your wealth, say 1%, I don't think you deserve more credit than anybody having a net worth of $10k donating $100, in fact maybe less, even if the absolute amount is way more.

Isn't that societal obligation codified as taxes?

> I don't think you deserve more credit than anybody having a net worth of $10k donating $100

Would you also consider this something not to admire but require?

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#45

Post by NedIsakoff »

leroy_masochist wrote: post #33
hajile wrote: post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

> Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? No, but what is hinted at in the complaint is that Salesforce did some kind of custom integration for Backpage: > The women sued Salesforce Tuesday in San Francisco state court, claiming billionaire Marc Benioff’s company knowingly supported Backpage by providing customized database tools to market and remarket prostitutes to “pimps,…

SalesForce not like Office 2016 where you install and use it. It's like Oracle EBS in that the forms, workflow, processes and etc needs to be customized for your business and use case. SalesForce has consultants and service people that help you with this. They are probably suing because SalesForce consultants or professional services help with the SalesForce setup/integration at BackPage.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#46

Post by asdffdsa »

will_brown wrote: post #40
hajile wrote: post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

>Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? If a company provides products/services to someone with the knowledge those products/services will be used for a crime...then yes. For example it’s legal for an arms dealer to sell a gun, but illegal to sell a gun if the seller knows the gun is being purchased with the intent of being used in a crime. Here what you have is Salesforce w…

"the facts suggest SalesForce was well aware of backpages business practices and activities"

source?

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#47

Post by NedIsakoff »

wlesieutre wrote: post #38
alexandercrohde wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the best delivery, but I think the question has to be asked. How much use does a tool take for the blame of those who misuse it? We would all laugh at an article entitled "Criminals used PENCIL AND PAPER in dastardly crime to traffic women" or "telephones" or even "email." Obviously the other extreme exists, when a tech company knowingly caters to an immoral regime, which is part of why I reject this blurring so…

Pencil and paper is too generic, that’s like “CRIMINALS USED COMPUTERS!” This is a more specific accusation. Not just any pens, criminals used UNI-BALL PENS. Tools aside, I have mixed feelings on the Backpage shutdown. What I've heard through friends of friends is that for non-trafficked sex workers this was a service that helped them earn a living much more safely than being out on the street looking for clients. Lo…

Read my comment below:

SalesForce not like Office 2016 where you install and use it. It's like Oracle EBS in that the forms, workflow, processes and etc needs to be customized for your business and use case. SalesForce has consultants and professional service people that help you with this. They are probably suing because SalesForce consultants or professional services help with the SalesForce setup/integration at BackPage.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#48

Post by prolepunk »

milemi wrote: post #27

Since it wasn't mentioned in the bloomberg article, whoever has been paying attention knows that shutting down backpage has made sex workers less safe and more dependent on pimps. Prostitution should be completely legal and brought into the light, not pushed into the shadows.

Now that shutting down backpage made the hardline stance on the issue mainstream, this lawsuit is one consequence of that.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#49

Post by 0815test »

hajile wrote: post #22

Should we also allow Microsoft to be sued for all the criminals that use windows? Salesforce is a platform (albeit a horrible one I never want to work with again) and provides services to whoever pays. Illegal actions are between the local government and the user. Criminals lie. They could claim to be a humanitarian company while trafficking. The only way for Salesforce to know would be to manually investigate all th…

> Stupid laws are stupid. If person A is legally responsible for person B's actions, they will necessarily start asserting control over person B's life.

Well, apparently the alternative is to subject person B to rather substantial ex-post punishment in order to deter them from committing crimes that they cannot pay meaningful restitution for. I think the option of shifting liability onto third parties that could meaningfully deter B before a crime is even committed might be preferable. It's the same principle that we use to mandate e.g. drivers to successfully insure themselves against some sorts of liability, before they're even allowed to drive.

Re: Fifty Women Say Salesforce Helped Sex Traffickers Exploit Them

#50

Post by MiroF »

outside1234 wrote: post #19
pferde wrote: post #3

I wonder whom did Salesforce annoy enough to warrant a media smear campaign against them.

The people that were the raw materials of the sex trafficing.

No don't you see? It's obviously a feminist conspiracy

/s since it can be hard to tell on this site

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