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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#291

Post by concerned_user »

coldtea wrote: post #174
TulliusCicero wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this has what, exactly, to do with my comment?

Wasn't your comment all about how driving is not that needed in Europe? Try getting to a different province/city etc, easily 30-100km away or more on "public transit". Even where the connections are there (and not like a couple of buses each day), it's neither fast nor pleasant enough to make driving "unneeded".

I live in Europe, driving is not needed. You hop on a train or on a bus, although if you have work 100 km away you wouls have some arrangements to live there for some part of the week commuting 100 km daily is unpleasant.

Unless your destination is in some rural village that is not reachable by train/bus, like closest bus stop is 5 km away you don't need a car, it is more convenient sure but not essential.

I have colleagues at work that are from small towns 100+km they rent a flat in the city here and go home on weekends, by train or car.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#292

Post by spookyuser »

wjmao88 wrote: post #213

This is not the social credit system(edit based on OP comment: the dystopic social credit system that people are afraid of). This is just the list of discredited people("Shi Xin Zhe" list) published by China's court system. The whole list is published on http://zxgk.court.gov.cn/ You don't end up on the list for simply owing money (and it has nothing to do with social mis/conduct), you end up on the list for being su…

It's weird I tried to submit that list as it's own submission on hacker news and it seemed to be doing well but then suddenly I couldn't I couldn't see it under new.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#293

Post by buzer »

coldtea wrote: post #156
TulliusCicero wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, other developed countries where driving seems really necessary for most people are Canada and Australia, maybe NZ? Admittedly I'm far from an expert in this, but I live in Germany now, have visited a bunch of countries in Europe, plus Japan, and that's certainly the impression I get. Right now our family of 3 living in a sleepy part of Munich gets by fine without a car, and we've visited lots of litt…

"8 % of the EU workforce commutes to work in a different region" (NUTS 2 defined region: different province, city, etc).

I, like about 50% of people living in Vantaa, commute to different city for work. I'm not sure how many of them actually use public transport for commute, but as overall public transport usage is around 50%. I don't think there's big difference between the usage between working within Vantaa or going to different city as that city is usually Helsinki or Espoo.

Commute wise they are all part of same region while legally they are different cities. I don't think that's extremely uncommon arrangement in some larger cities in Europe.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#294

Post by yorwba »

chessturk wrote: post #221
floe wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not an expert myself, when I have looked deeper into the reporting that makes claims like this, I often find that they're speculating based on one-off statements, not describing an actual extant system. I feel like the US media, even the most respectable publications, don't take appropriate care to separate fact from fiction re: social credit. For example, I found this article really surprising: https://foreign…

Honest question, isn't this same big data technical effort supporting the round up of Uighurs[1]? I get that the main story is about a debtor and credit, but the concept of stratification based on surveilence-data is word-for-word 1984. [1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-...

Rounding up Uyghurs doesn't require fancy big data at all. Everyone's ethnicity is already recorded on their national ID card, and by now that information can be expected to be digitized and easily searchable. To get a phone number, you need to register with your ID, so the government gets location tracking basically for free.

All of that is a completely different technical effort to the credit blacklist discussed here.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#295

Post by floe »

chessturk wrote: post #221
floe wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not an expert myself, when I have looked deeper into the reporting that makes claims like this, I often find that they're speculating based on one-off statements, not describing an actual extant system. I feel like the US media, even the most respectable publications, don't take appropriate care to separate fact from fiction re: social credit. For example, I found this article really surprising: https://foreign…

Honest question, isn't this same big data technical effort supporting the round up of Uighurs[1]? I get that the main story is about a debtor and credit, but the concept of stratification based on surveilence-data is word-for-word 1984. [1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-...

Well, what I'm saying is that I'm not certain that the social credit system is actually an effort to surveil and stratify all people in China. My understanding is that, in its current form, it only targets irresponsible business owners.

The Uighur roundup - that just sounds like standard colonialist violence to me. I don't see how it's specifically a 'big data' issue, nor how it's related to social credit.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#296

Post by alanwong »

dis-sys wrote: post #288
alanwong wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debt-related blacklists have been around before China's cabinet announced its intention to set up a nation-wide social credit system by 2020, but they ARE part of the social credit system. They're not exclusionary.

By looking at your NH submissions, 15 out of the latest 30 submissions were China related and all of them were negative news. Please stop calling what you do is journalism - it is nothing else but China bashing.

You're making a personal attack and a false statement.

How can this, for example, be considered "China bashing"? > China, undisputed king of electric transport (inkstonenews.com)

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#297

Post by yorwba »

alanwong wrote: post #245
geuszb wrote: post #189

I definitely felt on the wrong side of a gazillion popup banners after that click

I'm sorry you felt that way. I'm an editor of the website. What pop-up banners did you see? Would love to improve the UX for you and other readers here.

Since you are the editor, can you explain the relationship between SCMP and Inkstone? I noticed that this article was also posted on SCMP (with minor differences, curiously enough), so is Inkstone only a way to experiment with a different website design, or will there eventually be Inkstone-exclusive articles?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#298

Post by dis-sys »

alanwong wrote: post #296
dis-sys wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By looking at your NH submissions, 15 out of the latest 30 submissions were China related and all of them were negative news. Please stop calling what you do is journalism - it is nothing else but China bashing.

You're making a personal attack and a false statement. How can this, for example, be considered "China bashing"? > China, undisputed king of electric transport (inkstonenews.com)

Mentioned data is here - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=alanwong

15 out of the most recent 30 submissions from your account are China related news, 94% of them are negative. Citing such publicly available stats that can be easily verified by the public is now considered as personal attack? Keep arguing whether 94% or 100% of your submissions are negative doesn't really change anything.

Maybe inkstonenews.com only publish negative China related news articles or you intentionally only submit those negative ones from inkstonenews.com to NH? What is the story here?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#299

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#300

Post by [deleted] »

andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

[deleted]
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