Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 266 posts

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#221

Post by Natsu »

whynow wrote: post #192
aneth wrote: post #173

The most interesting thing about reading these cables is how the US comes out well - reasonable, rational, and analytical - not the nefarious evil satan that it is portrayed by our enemies and domestic extremists. This snapshot of the inner workings of American diplomacy actually make me feel much better about how things are being managed, and should undermine efforts to portray some nasty plot to dominate the world.…

The best part about reading these cables is seeing that the USG uses Google to search for information before anything else and references searches in Classified cables.... "(S) Note: A quick google check revealed several companies with the name INSULTEC in the title - these may or not be affiliated. Based on the information provided by source (currently in Iran, where he frequently travels), one possible candidate co…

For a moment, I thought you were going to say that someone was using Google trends to see if there were any interesting trends in people searching for information about how the leaks had spread and which of them were interesting to whom.

Of course, someone is probably doing that now....

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#222

Post by linhir »

d2viant wrote: post #5

Perhaps off topic, but what is a cable? Is it just an email? Or is it some other form of communication specific to the State Department?

In short: cables are the official record and communication tool of the diplomatic corps. As several other replies have pointed out, cables are a form of electronic communication, but they aren't emails. That may sound like a meaningless distinction, but in the everyday business of the department it is real. If you work at DOS, you usually have two email addresses--one on the unclassified and one on the classified network. Additionally, you can have access to a system to read, review and send cables. Think of them as official inter-office memos, or something like that. They're formatted in a specific way, and they do not, under any circumstances, travel on any communications systems not completed operated by the US Government. You get the sense of what I mean by format if you look at some of the documents on the NYT site (or sit down, as I have, and read a few thousand cables in a row). If you're the Ambassador to Country X, and you have a meeting with the President of X, you write a memo, in a particular format, with each paragraph classified U/SBU/C/S/TS, and in a pretty particular tone. That memo (cable) then gets sent to, who knows, the Assistant Secretary for the Region X is in, an Undersecretary or two, the OPs center, the Deputy, etc.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#223

Post by xsltuser2010 »

aneth wrote: post #173

The most interesting thing about reading these cables is how the US comes out well - reasonable, rational, and analytical - not the nefarious evil satan that it is portrayed by our enemies and domestic extremists. This snapshot of the inner workings of American diplomacy actually make me feel much better about how things are being managed, and should undermine efforts to portray some nasty plot to dominate the world.…

I'm german, and that was my impression too, the rational style is great. I'm looking forward to read analysis on differences between those reports and official statements (in particular Bush era).

It feels like reading a history book almost in real time - This is the kind of stuff i would expect journalism to deliver as their daily work. If it was a newspaper, I would subscribe for that.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#224

Post by geonomist »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #178
dantheman wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to hear one coherent argument against capitalism -- I've never seen one.

Pure capitalism is a rent-seeking company-town dystopian nightmare. It encourages exclusive ownership of strategic resources, even when they're openly used to destroy the competitive free market by preventing rivals from existing. Similarly, lack of access to capital is a self-perpetuating social stratification problem which has led to violent revolution. IMHO these are reasons to regulate it carefully, not to elimin…

Neither of the above. Replace capitalism with geoism. Capitalism could not survive in a freed market, a market free of counterproductive taxes, addictive subsidies, and nigh unlimited license (the corporate charter) to wreak havoc. People need to feel enough self-esteem to demand a share of the commonwealth, of all the money we all spend on all the nature we use. Then we could lock the hood on the economy.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#225

Post by aneth »

glenstein wrote: post #218
aneth wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was an honest mistake and arresting CIA officers for making a mistake in their job, one which they corrected and admitted to, would hardly be without implications.

Being kidnapped, flown to a prison for five months and possibly tortured, possibly sodomized is more than a "mistake." And merely admitting to having committed a human rights violation is not a substitute for following due process of law. Threatening a country with "implications" for wanting to bring the people to justice who wrongfully detained one of their citizens does not make the United States look good. Plus th…

As helium said, my point is not that there is a perfect record. What is not there - a sinister plot to monopolize the world's oil, destroy Muslim society, or assassinate world leaders - is more important.

That said, a broader point is in order - I don't think anyone expects perfect adherence to "international law" by the USA. Despite the weight of the phrase "international law," the actual concept is deeply ambiguous. There is no fully baked world government, so "international law" is not a direct moral parallel to domestic law in a sovereign state. As much as the UN can do for the world, it is not a proper law making body, it's not accountable to it's constituents or fairly representative of the world, and some of its most powerful members don't even represent their own constituents. It's a rough hack at providing a venue for diplomacy and world order - not a supremely powerful entity as many people would wish it to be. The phrase "violation of international law" tastes meaty, but it's just tofu.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#226

Post by prodigal_erik »

geonomist wrote: post #224
prodigal_erik wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure capitalism is a rent-seeking company-town dystopian nightmare. It encourages exclusive ownership of strategic resources, even when they're openly used to destroy the competitive free market by preventing rivals from existing. Similarly, lack of access to capital is a self-perpetuating social stratification problem which has led to violent revolution. IMHO these are reasons to regulate it carefully, not to elimin…

Neither of the above. Replace capitalism with geoism. Capitalism could not survive in a freed market, a market free of counterproductive taxes, addictive subsidies, and nigh unlimited license (the corporate charter) to wreak havoc. People need to feel enough self-esteem to demand a share of the commonwealth, of all the money we all spend on all the nature we use. Then we could lock the hood on the economy.

Capitalism is an entire scheme for running an economy, because it answers questions like:

* How do we decide how many factories to operate? (A capitalist might bet that we need one more.)

* How do we motivate the people who are needed to build and run them? (The capitalist hires them.)

* Where do the raw materials come from? (The capitalist buys them.)

* Who is entitled to have the end products? (The capitalist, and whoever he sells them to.)

Geoism is merely a way to fund government; it doesn't make any of these other things happen. It also seems to make the burden fall disproportionately on organizations that use a lot of land, rather than using a lot of energy or people or any other asset. If we're going to ration something (which is all a property tax is) as a tactic, it should be energy, because we're more likely to run low on that than square feet of dirt.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#227

Post by kolektiv »

berntb wrote: post #99
btmorex wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think these are mundane at all, but I also don't think the US comes out looking very bad. There are surely going to be some relationships that are slightly damaged especially with some allies, but so far, it's nothing too bad. Other countries on the other hand... I know this isn't hugely surprising, but it's now public that essentially everyone in the middle east is lobbying the US to attack Iran. That's got…

Consider this: How many (sober) politicians will now have an open heart discussion with an US diplomatic official, which really couldn't reach his own voters/subjects? Without being that knowledgeable about diplomacy internals, that should be worse than most any scandal.

If politicians no longer feel comfortable stating opinions or plans which would be unacceptable to the electorate and/or their own voters, I for one don't feel that's entirely bad. I'm pretty much in favour of politicians being open about their plans and principles.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#228

Post by mseebach »

Jach wrote: post #197
mseebach wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation does not imply causation.

"What does, then?" Correlation surely gives you a place to look. I believe the correct quote is "Correlation is not by itself causation." Furthermore, this isn't even a counterargument, and beyond that this is a testable prediction: someone can ask the guy.

Causation does. In terms of "giving us a place to look" it might as well swing in the opposite direction: He stands to spend quite a few years in jail. If his motive was getting back at the military for sacking him for his sexuality sounds a lot better (and gives him access to support from a wider range of people) than him just feeling that it's his prerogative to publish the confidential material that was entrusted to him.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#229

Post by ebaysucks »

anamax wrote: post #189
prodigal_erik wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure capitalism is a rent-seeking company-town dystopian nightmare. It encourages exclusive ownership of strategic resources, even when they're openly used to destroy the competitive free market by preventing rivals from existing. Similarly, lack of access to capital is a self-perpetuating social stratification problem which has led to violent revolution. IMHO these are reasons to regulate it carefully, not to elimin…

> IMHO these are reasons to regulate it carefully, not to eliminate it. You don't get to assume regulation that does "the right thing". Instead, you have to accept regulation as it works in practice. When buying and selling are regulated, regulators are bought and sold.

Read "The Machinery Of Freedom" by David Friedman.

Every "regulation" is a product. It will be provided if people want to pay for it voluntarily.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#230

Post by viraptor »

brown9-2 wrote: post #164
viraptor wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were crimes of governments which are supposed to be trusted and which should work for the people. What end does not releasing every single one of them serve? Why would anyone want to keep them secret?

Can you be specific about what the crimes are here?

Are we reading the same article? From the samples: corruption, extortion, unlawful arrests, etc. on international scale. I'm not sure why are you asking - this is what the reports are about.
Post reply on HN