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WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

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Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#101

Post by gnosis »

d2viant wrote: post #97
gnosis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What good would assassinating him do? He's not the only one who runs Wikileaks or has access to the information. They'd need to "snatch" everyone who has access to it, which might be a very difficult proposition, not to mention a complete public relations disaster, considering Wikileaks is in the public spotlight right now. I very much doubt the CIA is holding back out of the goodness of their hearts. No. What we are…

I'm not suggesting they assassinate him. He's broken numerous laws and they have a pretty compelling case against him. I can't imagine that the public relations fallout from his arrest would be any worse than the public relations disaster they have with the release of these cables.

"He's broken numerous laws and they have a pretty compelling case against him."

Are we still talking about the CIA? Has it become a law-enforcement agency and I didn't notice?

If your point is regarding the possibility of the US government going after Assange by legal means (not via some extralegal, shadowy CIA antics), I'm certain they would if they could.

The fact that they haven't leads me to believe their case against him isn't quite as airtight as you believe.

But regardless of what they do or try to do to Assange, it won't stop Wikileaks. The best that the US government could manage is to extract some sort of retribution or send out a warning to future leakers and whistleblowers.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#102

Post by berntb »

d2viant wrote: post #98
hugh3 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this actually proves an important point about the various three-letter agencies: they're not really the nefarious organizations that exist in the imaginations of people who have seen too many movies. Jason Bourne's CIA would has assassinated Julian Assange a long time ago. The real one just grumbles.

I think you're right with regards to US agencies. I'll be more interested to see what happens if he releases damaging information against less tolerant governments, i.e. the Russians.

Oh please, you're paranoid. The Russians would probably just have a chat over some tea... :-)

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#103

Post by ronnier »

mike-cardwell wrote: post #76
naner wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we discussed ViewText here? I'm impressed. I think I may start using this instead of readability.

Looks good, but fails if you enter a https url. Shame really.

The https problem is now fixed. For example, the https version of this article:

http://viewtext.org/article?url=https://www.nytimes.com/2010...

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#104

Post by viraptor »

philwelch wrote: post #6

Earlier WikiLeaks releases seemed to expose atrocities and human rights abuses by the US military and government, which represents at least a partial justification. What end does this release serve?

These were crimes of governments which are supposed to be trusted and which should work for the people. What end does not releasing every single one of them serve? Why would anyone want to keep them secret?

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#105

Post by commandar »

d2viant wrote: post #98
hugh3 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this actually proves an important point about the various three-letter agencies: they're not really the nefarious organizations that exist in the imaginations of people who have seen too many movies. Jason Bourne's CIA would has assassinated Julian Assange a long time ago. The real one just grumbles.

I think you're right with regards to US agencies. I'll be more interested to see what happens if he releases damaging information against less tolerant governments, i.e. the Russians.

And where it gets really interesting is if one of these other nations decides to ice Assange and then let the Americans get blamed for it.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#106

Post by hugh3 »

gnosis wrote: post #101
d2viant wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not suggesting they assassinate him. He's broken numerous laws and they have a pretty compelling case against him. I can't imagine that the public relations fallout from his arrest would be any worse than the public relations disaster they have with the release of these cables.

"He's broken numerous laws and they have a pretty compelling case against him." Are we still talking about the CIA? Has it become a law-enforcement agency and I didn't notice? If your point is regarding the possibility of the US government going after Assange by legal means (not via some extralegal, shadowy CIA antics), I'm certain they would if they could. The fact that they haven't leads me to believe their case ag…

The fact that they haven't leads me to believe their case against him isn't quite as airtight as you believe.

I'm not sure whether he's broken any US laws or not. He did not, after all, leak the information, he merely publicised it after someone else (Bradley Manning, apparently) leaked it. Wikipedia mentions no warrants out for his arrest apart from the rape one, for which he's apparently right now "under arrest in absentia" in Sweden.

Bradley Manning, of course, remains in solitary at Quantico pending court martial -- he most certainly broke some laws.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#107

Post by StavrosK »

ronnier wrote: post #70
StavrosK wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay if I link to it from historious for formatting webpages?

Yup! That's really the intended use, for others to provide links to articles from within their apps. That's what I did for http://ihackernews.com (HN for iPhone/Android).

Fantastic, thank you. I used Google Mobilizer before, but it didn't format the site nicely, so I wasn't convinced that it was useful at all (most mobile devices can display full-blown webpages and the Kindle has an "article mode" that's basically readability).

Your tool joins pages as well, which is fantastically useful, and formats the page nicely, which is, again, very handy. I'm not sure this feature belongs in historious (rather than having people do it themselves), but I've linked to you for now, thank you for providing this service!

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#108

Post by moxiemk1 »

moondowner wrote: post #14

It's not only NYT releasing info about #cablegate, check out Guardian too: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-us-embassy-cables

Could we call it something more descriptive than "cablegate?" Its also not a scandal in the same way as Watergate - much more in line with the likes of the "Pentagon Papers". Perhaps a similarly descriptive hashtag, like #wikileakscables or #wikileaksdiplomaticcables if you're not bound by 140 characters.

But please - let's raise the level of discourse from sensationalist "Action News" by refusing to use pidgeonhole phrases and instead call things accurately.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#109

Post by commandar »

jscore wrote: post #85
d2viant wrote: post #81

What surprises me most is that Julian Assange has lasted this long. This isn't OBL, where he's living in a cave somewhere -- this guy is known to travel between first world countries. I can understand those countries may not be willing to hand him over, but the US has lots of experience with rendition and I'm surprised some three-letter agency hasn't snatched him up yet.

Why is it surprising? America can't go against every one who doesn't agree with them. It needs to weigh its options carefully and intelligently. The mere reason that Hugo Chavez is still in power testifies to this fact. The world is not black and white where we might send CIA or Special Forces to neutralize someone who we don't like. It's definitely more complicated than it seems. There are other, more indirect ways…

>The mere reason that Hugo Chavez is still in power testifies to this fact.

That and the fact that the last time they tried, he turned out the be more resilient than expected -- and the coupe leaders far more incompetent; the coupe failed at least in part because they left Chavez's own people guarding the presidential palace after they took it over. Oops -- and the whole thing ended up being a huge embarrassment and likely gave Hugo an extra push over the old crazy ledge.

Re: WikiLeaks Archive — Cables Uncloak U.S. Diplomacy

#110

Post by Alex3917 »

sudonim wrote: post #78
Alex3917 wrote: post #41

"WikiLeaks has put at risk not only the cause of human rights but also the lives and work of these individuals." This is ironic since one of the biggest contributing factors behind Manning allegedly leaking the documents was probably the fact that the government was kicking him out of the military for being gay. The fact that Obama literally can't even stop lying during his one sentence soundbite condemning the leak…

I had no idea that the wikileaks and don't ask, don't tell stuff were connected. How deep does the rabbit-hole go? Im glad they're not focusing on Manning's sexuality in the coverage, but it seems to me that the policies about sexuality in the military have some bearing on Manning's motivations for wikileaking. Interesting!

The basic problem is that Obama is a cheerleader in support of bigotry and discrimination against minorities. And when the vast majority of Americans are a member of some discriminated-against class, it shouldn't really be that big of a surprise when Americans start attacking America.

Until we have equal rights for LGBT, drug users, the chronically ill, the mentally ill, children, students, fetishists, men, women, religions that don't look or act like Christianity, gun owners, parents, travelers, the poor, etc., then America will never be safe. What we need isn't some free for all where everyone can do anything, but rather rules and punishments based on reason and science rather than bigotry, fear, and corporate greed.

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