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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#201

Post by cinquemb »

moosey wrote: post #63
andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

But do you deny that felons have the same issue? How many felons do we have today that were punished by non-violent drug crimes, by design as far as I can tell. As a US citizen, I don't believe that pointing out my own faults is "whataboutism". It is self-criticism. "Whataboutism" is a defense. I am not defending China, what they are doing is awful, and we should work to make sure that the systems that we have in our…

>However, most people on here have the opportunity to do so in the US.

Good on you for fighting the good fight, I've abandoned all hope: I'll let our societies figure out where this winding path goes itself and hedge accordingly…

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#203

Post by duxup »

gwright wrote: post #154
freedomben wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because the government took over most student loans a few years ago[1], and they make the rules (and want you to pay). [1] https://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Feds-take-o...

As a taxpayer, I want you to pay also. I also want the government out of the educational loan business and think that some of the financial risk should be borne by the educational institutions. Making educational loans dischargeable in bankruptcy sounds reasonable on the surface but it problematic when you consider that a newly minted college graduate basically has no assets. Allowing the loan to be dischargeable wou…

Yeah for a college graduate bankruptcy would seem like a pretty quick solution.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#204

Post by duxup »

AmVess wrote: post #32

USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.

That's not fair... but I think that is a long long ways down the road from the social credit system.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#205

Post by jen20 »

coldtea wrote: post #174
TulliusCicero wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this has what, exactly, to do with my comment?

Wasn't your comment all about how driving is not that needed in Europe? Try getting to a different province/city etc, easily 30-100km away or more on "public transit". Even where the connections are there (and not like a couple of buses each day), it's neither fast nor pleasant enough to make driving "unneeded".

In many parts of Europe that is incredibly straightforward - much more so than driving or parking.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#206

Post by alanwong »

Aunche wrote: post #87
andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

> The social credit score in China... penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. This isn't the same social credit that is mentioned in this article. What you're describing is a speculated feature of a social credit system that doesn't even exist yet.

OP and Inkstone editor here. You're right. As scary as it may sound, there's no nation-wide social credit SCORE system in China. Right now blacklists run by the Supreme Court and other government organs make up the bulk of the social credit system. Our team of journalists have been closely monitoring and reporting on-the-ground reality of the system, and what we've found so far isn't quite "Black Mirror" yet.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#207

Post by onetimemanytime »

ordu wrote: post #76
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". In a country made for a car drivers it seems like a kind of an essential privilege.

The point being missed: they'd stop you from taking trains or whatever if it wasn't the driver's license. The idea is to make your life miserable so you would pay, so whatever ticks you, they'll do.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#208

Post by nradov »

headcanon wrote: post #93
lisper wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but none of that changes the fact that suspending someone's driving privilege as a punishment for failing to pay a debt is incredibly stupid and counterproductive.

I was once sitting in a courtroom for something unrelated and saw a 19 year old kid go to jail for 3 months for not paying child support. Not sure how he's going to pay it back in there, but if all you have is a hammer...

Was he really sent to jail for not paying child support, or was it actually for contempt of court? People generally can't be jailed for debt. But if the subject of a child support order has money and refuses to may, or refuses to take reasonable steps to earn some income, then sometimes the judge has to administer an object lesson on the importance of fulfilling one's obligations. Judges usually don't take that step unless the defendant has demonstrated a long history of irresponsible behavior.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#209

Post by peteretep »

ceejayoz wrote: post #68
andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

> The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. The US is toying with going in that direction. https://money.cnn.com/2013/08/26/technology/social/facebook-... > One such company, Lenddo, determines if you're friends on Facebook (FB) with someone who was late paying back a loan to Lenddo. If so, that's bad news for you. It's even…

> Fully expect to see this sort of thing incorporated in credit scores barring legislation to restrict it.

I fully expect to see an enterprising lawyer bringing a class action suit and taking the money of the companies who invested in this one

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#210

Post by chessturk »

Legogris wrote: post #37

Not at all defending the system here, but the article exaggerates quite a bit when talking about the trains. > In China, only those who cannot afford the high-speed train take the slow train. I have taken a similar train from Shanghai to Shenyang, it was also a bit north of 30 hours. Sure, it was not very clean and as everywhere you may encounter unconventional people but in general it's not at all the deadbeat carav…

Can I ask how recent that was? I'm a total outsider, but I've heard China's changed like crazy.
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