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European Parliament approves copyright reform

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Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#751
post #76

This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissi…

I don't know whether Article 11/13 are good or bad (although at first glance they seem to be bad), but I don't think this attitude of "forcing freedom" onto others is good. The entire attitude that I should "regain [my] freedom" seems condescending. I don't want to use a P2P alternative to YouTube or Reddit, because 99% of the content is on Reddit/YouTube. I'm well aware that YouTube collects and sells my personal da…

"I don't want to use a P2P alternative to YouTube or Reddit, because 99% of the content is on Reddit/YouTube."

Wouldn't the killer feature of these P2P platforms (admittedly, none of which I've ever used) be to have a 'transparent bridge' to the mainstream platforms? I.e., like SciHub, almost transparently pirate content from their original source? Do any of them have it?

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#753
post #21

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

You're not alone. Hungarian elections, Brexit, this - it all feels like what people actually want, is ignored.

You started a flamewar with this and then fuelled it below. This is exactly what we don't want on HN, and breaks the site guidelines badly. Would you please review them and follow them when posting here? You'll find that they include:

"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#754
post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tech changes rapidly, and legislation quite simply isn't going to be able to encode a specific contextual mutating standard. Law isn't wrong to offload that analysis to an institution that is in the thick of it, with access to expert testimony and amicus information to inform it. You WANT the EFF and other advocates being able to weigh in on how the balancing factors should work and you want the courts to listen. T…

>It means you don't know what the law actually is yet when you're trying to comply with it. Yes, this happens in all industries that have cases being litigated all the time. In some instances, areas of settled law are completely upended by new rulings that change the status quo and force people to spend money on complying with the new state of affairs. Yes, it sucks, but this is business as normal. The tension betwee…

> Yes, this happens in all industries that have cases being litigated all the time. In some instances, areas of settled law are completely upended by new rulings that change the status quo and force people to spend money on complying with the new state of affairs.

And court decisions that make major changes like that are rare, exactly because they result in widespread burdensome changes to existing behavior that would have been less burdensome if what was required had been better specified to begin with.

If you pass a law that requires such a court decision to happen before anybody knows how to comply with the law, what is anyone supposed to do in the meantime?

Especially when many of the questions are obvious, not bothering to answer them is just punting because they know the answers will be problematic.

> If they had a million users on a platform that shares and promotes other people's copyrighted works without a license, I'd sure hope they figured out their IP strategy.

Everything with user generated content is "a platform that shares and promotes other people's copyrighted works" and they're intended to be licensed from the user/creator. That the platform has no good way to know when what the user uploads is unlicensed is the whole problem.

And if they didn't have some way to do that when they were small then they don't have it when they first become big either. If you need a solution before you have a million users then you need a solution before you have a million users -- and then we're imposing the same burden on the little guy as on Google, if the little guy ever hopes to become Google without promptly getting sued into the ground.

I also reiterate that user count is unrelated to resource level. An individual can operate a platform with a million users and make no profit from it, but impose a laborious content filtering requirement and that platform is gone.

That is presumably the sort of thing they're trying to protect with language about non-profits, but this is where the ambiguity bites us again. If an individual operates a forum as a labor of love where the ads break even with the hosting costs, is that non-profit or not? What if some years there is a "profit" of $200/year? An individual who doesn't want to be bankrupted by lawsuits is not going to enjoy rolling the dice there.

> Why would they need to implement Content ID...?

We don't know what they would need.

> Do you think a blog's comment section needs filtering unless it becomes a common vector for sharing copyrighted material?

Are blog comments not copyrighted material?

How is the platform supposed to know what is being shared there without reading it all?

> The objective isn't to nuke small companies - it is to strike a fair balance between distribution and content creation. No one wants distribution dead.

The objective of DMCA 1201 wasn't to keep farmers from repairing their tractors.

The issue is the divergence between their stated objective and what they did.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the Internet caught many "corporate and political powers" by surprise. But now they're getting it locked down. > I think many will stop seeing the darkweb as a place of CP and drug dealing, and more of an internet free from regulation. You mean Tor, I presume. But Freenet is still around, although it's too risky to use it, except via Tor. And there are other overlay networks. Some basically just use VPN connecti…

> But Freenet is still around, although it's too risky to use it, except via Tor. Hi, I'm a Freenet developer of the past ~ 10 years, so I'd like to clarify upon this :) (The project is still active, there was a release just this week!) While there technically were indeed lawsuits in the US, the situation is not as black and white as "it's dangerous". It is an anonymizing peer-to-peer network as well! What is dangero…

> So Opennet allows law enforcement to connect to your Freenet potentially and thus analyze your traffic.

Further, it should be clarified that this is not a problem specific to Freenet:

ANY network which tries to be anonymous will suffer from the so-called "sybil" attack if it connects to random strangers:

If an attacker runs e.g. 100 000 machines on a network of only 1000 actual users then the probability that a single user only has connections to them is very high.

And anonymization must rely upon redirecting traffic across multiple peers - but it cannot if all peers belong to the attacker.

To my understanding Tor addresses this problem by heuristics, e.g. closely monitoring important, big machines in their network, trying to ensure they are in fact distinct entities - but that is really just guesswork, not hard mathematical security.

If Tor wanted to be truly secure it would have to add a darknet mode as well.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#756
post #76

This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissi…

> These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit I take issue when people use the word profit to mean some evil, shameful thing. Youtube has amazing content and tools, and I'm sure a lot of their profit is re-invested in the platform. I doubt these other platforms come close in terms of functionality and UX. Peertube site design looks like it's from 2005. I know that might not be indicative of th…

>I take issue when people use the word profit to mean some evil, shameful thing.

You left out the "by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissing any human cost those practices entail" part. I don't associate the word profit with a bad connotation univocally; that's only an assumption on your end.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#757
post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with Freenet. Why must you use Tor to browse it?

It's a ~20 year old P2P network that relies on traffic obfuscation for plausible deniability. But peers see each other's IP addresses. There's lots of child porn on it. In recent years, investigators have been using customized clients to serve child porn, and track which peers receive it from them. For IPs in their jurisdiction, they get and execute search warrants. Although there is arguably plausible deniability, m…

> It's a ~20 year old P2P network that relies on traffic obfuscation for plausible deniability. But peers see each other's IP addresses.

Traffic is not just obfuscated, it is encrypted. Sure, you see the IP of a peer which transfers stuff across your client - but you do not know what the stuff is as it is encrypted.

So the IP address is worthless unless you figure out a way to guess what the stuff is, and who requested is.

See my other reply in this thread for further details.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#758
I don't know why this has so much hate. It doesn't seem like the best piece of legislation, but it does address a serious issue that has gone ignored for far too long.

YouTube really built an empire on copyrighted content, and still continues to profit from it, as a result of liability shield that the DMCA provides. It has never sat well with me.

Today YouTube no longer relies on copyrighted content to be relevant. User generated content is now the primary source of views and ad revenue, but that wasn't always so. I remember when YouTube was the place to go to watch The Daily Show, SouthPark, SNL, and a host of other things. That's how YouTube became popular. This, "It's okay to break the law as long as the end result does more good than harm," is a weird line of thinking that seems to permeate a host of tech startups these days. And in the case of YouTube, while it's true that copyrighted content infringement is no longer their business driver, there's still a large portion of content that is copyrighted and YouTube shouldn't be profiting from that for no reason.

If YouTube was a public utility, as many people—particularly "creators"—seem to want to treat it things might be different. But YouTube isn't a public utility. Letting users hide behind anonymous accounts shouldn't magically absolve you of liability.

I think letting things develop the way they have probably did more good than harm at the end of the day, but I'm not sure that justifies it—and I don't think it should just be allowed to continue.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#759
post #76

This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissi…

> only affects for-profit platforms

And then there is the question how "for profit" is defined.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#760

I don't know why this has so much hate. It doesn't seem like the best piece of legislation, but it does address a serious issue that has gone ignored for far too long. YouTube really built an empire on copyrighted content, and still continues to profit from it, as a result of liability shield that the DMCA provides. It has never sat well with me. Today YouTube no longer relies on copyrighted content to be relevant. U…

> YouTube really built an empire on copyrighted content

The current content gatekeepers built their studios by violating Edison's patents. In fact many innovators got started by subverting copyright restrictions in some form.

Perhaps that tells you something.

Also, it's not a one-way street. YT is a platform where artists can effectively reach a worldwide audience for free, something their publishers would have to pay handsomely for before, in the form of prime-time ad spots on multiple TV networks.

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