If anyone is interested in an IRC channel for NVC, a few friends and I run ##nvc on freenode. It's small, but we'd love to grow it and spread NVC.
A guide to difficult conversations
221–230 of 415 posts
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
I noticed I started taking NVC seriously only after my 'very big life lessons'. I had heard about NVC and never found any great reason to think about it deeply or apply it until my own screw ups. That is all I was trying to convey.
I have the same reading as the other person: that the implication of your comment is people who don’t agree with you are just ignorant. I too have experienced big, unrecoverable losses: several were caused by manipulative people thinking NVC or similar allowed them to force resolutions to their misconduct by manipulating others’ emotions, while never engaging in direct discussion. Many of these discussion frameworks…
Oh I see...thanks for that. I was wondering why there was so much hostility. Makes sense.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of communicating is also building a relationship. I should know if you respond to blunt and direct and lean more in that direction when communicating with you. I have worked on remaining calm in high stress moments. In certain situations it drives my wife nuts that she is stressed/excited and I'm calm looking for a solution. What I learned is to reflect back some of her excitement from a stressful situation, but…
Glad to see someone else with the same issue. I've never thought about "putting on" a bit of stress as a way to calm her down. I suppose it's because they feel like they're in the wrong for being the only one who is expressing stress/excitement?
I think it might be something about the shared mental state and bonding... maybe releases serotonin and/or oxytocin - kind of a "monkey grooming" type thing.
I noticed this one time when I was in college: I had come home on a break and couldn't relax, I was super stressed out and felt generally bad. I went over my best friend's house down the street, bitched to her about some small stuff that had annoyed me that day, she mirrored me and I INSTANTLY relaxed. I remember it 15 years later because it was such a marked effect.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#224Calling it "nonviolent communication" is a brilliant marketing move, as it implies that not conversing in this manner is violent. I've seen this style many times in my career, and it always comes off as patronizing. It also tends to be used far more often than recommended. Instead of being deployed in difficult conversations, it gets used in every one-on-one. My guess is that NVC ends up like power posing[1]: pop-psy…
In general I'm also not a fan of changing definitions of words for the extra pathos and marketability. I also would be surprised if Rosenberg has any sort of malicious intent here in his choice of wording. Violence is, by definition, physical, and claiming that "speech is violence" seems like a trivialization of actual physical violence. While there is evidence that certain types of psychological abuse can cause a ph…
Emotional manipulation is absolutely violence. Often language which is itself not explicitly violent is backed by implicit threats of violence. Labeling and judgment feed both emotional and physical violence, not only among individuals but also more systematically.
The most brilliant book I know about this is Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, which explores in great depth the myriad ways in which language is violent and perpetuates violence, while being narrated by a completely dispassionate narrator who sticks to pure observation.
> [...] can cause a physical reaction akin to that experienced by victims of physical violence, those cases are extremely rare
If by “extremely rare” you mean experienced by nearly everyone occasionally throughout their lives (and by many on a daily basis), then sure.
An attack doesn’t need to leave someone hospitalized to be “violent”.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#225Corollary (to the whole article): act/do the way you expect others to act/do in a small set of areas that are very important to you.
I've often seen leaders/managers get upset about the little shit while not acting the way they expect others to act in the areas they care about.
My step dad and a few bosses I've had over the years are great at this; they jump in and start doing the work and its amazing to see others jump right in along side them. Also, and this is key: they jump in and work along side their own reports who are doing the right things (this is a powerful message to a team).
One boss and mentor (and now a good friend) - would write documents/presentations and share them with an employee: "hey, I'm doing this presentation to _______ , check it out. I'd like you to ramp up and next month take it over. I'll be happy to help if required"
One time, some people were arguing one day about how to test some software and hardware. Boss observes the argument and comes in the next day with a little circuit board he made to help complete the tests. The model within the team from then on was often "hey I built this thing to help with the _____ ..what do you think, will this help?"
Another example, eng boss in a standup : "hey, I like how you did that thing with ____ in the code, I'm going to fork that and try an experiment". Comes back a few days later "hey check out this branch.. its a way to do _____; You can see what I'm getting at - and maybe figure out how something like this can work in the main codebase ..food for thought".
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect sampling bias. When you're upset, direct confrontation can be upsetting too! NVC isn't a perfect magic trick that always works, but that's not enough reason to dismiss it.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted, this is my reading, as well. People hate being called to task. In many ways it makes it harder for me, in my distress, when the person pointing out my flaws does so in a way that doesn’t leave a lot of room for me to blame others for my failures, or to blame others for my distress. So the actual experience of NVC (regardless of whether it’s wielded as a subtle tool of manipu…
Having read through this I think NVC is leveraging power dynamics and social conditioning to leave the victim helpless to fight back. This is essentially something out of a sociopaths tool box.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
"how you recognize when you are being patronizing" That's a good point. I'm fairly adept at recognizing when someone is trying to negotiate with me based on some kind of taught methodology. Because most of what's taught is counter to how you would do it naturally...thus it stands out. Once you recognize it, the natural reaction is to feel like you're being manipulated with some technique.
I think part of it is that the observation needs to be genuinely objective rather than veiled evaluation. For example, when I did tech support I would occasionally get chat messages from my supervisor along the lines of: "Hey, I see that you closed out Ticket #XYZ without any resolution or response sent to the requester." (waits for response) (waits for response) (waits for response) ...and it would make me furious,…
If I did that, there would be an implicit "I'd like to know why" on the end of it, with the understanding that there might be a very good reason. But now that you point it out, I could see how that could come across as a criticism, too.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#228As someone who has never heard of NVC, I recall echos of such tactics in the language a former teammate employed at work. However, nobody found him sincere or honest. Instead, he cam across as mechanical even though it was clear that he was trying to foster a transparent and open environment. There was always a disconnect between this noble goal and the hostility he made everybody feel when he talked with them. I thi…
I don't get it. What part of that question is aggressive? Arriving late is a fact. The author requests helping him understand what's happening -- not an unreasonable request, unless you think that author magically understanding the situation without any communication counts as reasonable. The author feels an emotion -- again, not unreasonable because emotions are private and are not a choice. The author does not give an evaluation, so it sounds like you think having the emotion is the evaluation.
It sounds like you expect people to give you the benefit of the doubt all the time, without needing to expend any effort communicating.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#229I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…
"Because we were unavailable, my younger brother-in-law was given Power of Attorney."
I don't understand this. IANAL, but recently had to figure some of this stuff out. PoA is granted per the wishes of the grantor. If your FIL is incapacitated, who granted the PoA?
I think your wife is certainly within her rights to see the actual PoA.
I am not advocating lawyering up or pushing hard for clarity.
I am saying that it might be worthwhile to figure out what's what, explore options. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Like who and how decides about DNR, end-of-life, etc.
Further, it's good practice. Talk to your kids, next-of-kin, whoever. Figure this stuff out ahead of time. For everyone's peace of mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_attorney
My family has a long tradition of planning ahead for this stuff. Even so, we recently scrambled to update my mom's paperwork to better reflect the current situation. Just in case. Having that clarity helped. Prevented a bad situation from getting worse and got us all back to rowing together.
For comparison, my SIL's family hasn't done anything, won't talk about it, and last year was a total shitshow. Also, my sweetie's family hasn't done anything, won't talk about it, the inevitable happened, and now it's a shitshow.
--
Ask about any available resources, social workers, counseling. They can help navigate this stuff.
Re: A guide to difficult conversations
#230I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…
leeslaminen says:
"Because we were unavailable, my younger brother-in-law was given Power of Attorney."
If what you say is true, then get a lawyer and request that the court transfer POA to you or your wife, whomever was specified in his papers or in the law by default. Now that you _are_ available, the court may transfer POA to you.
Let this be a reminder to those reading that, when you assign POA you might also wish to designate whom you DO NOT wish to be assigned POA, in case the first-listed assignees are not available, resign, or later removed somehow.
Too bad you didn't let him assault you: that would have made it much easier. You could have charged him with assault and used it as evidence in the POA hearing or simply as leverage to force him to yield.
Alternatively, if you can find grounds, you can question the original POA document and have it nullified.
All in all it sounds as if, in addition to having irritable in-laws (who doesn't?), you simply didn't get your way and are angry about it. So either lawyer up or learn how to deal with "No.".