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A guide to difficult conversations

medium.dave-bailey.com

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Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#181

Post by kodz4 »

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #87
kodz4 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes time. It's only after you have a few big unrecoverable screwups in life, will some of this stuff make more sense. You are better off being aware and not understanding its value, than not being aware at all of NVC. Once you hit an issue where you find yourself automatically avoiding things, attacking someone or defending yourself and producing all kinds of misery, just remind yourself that there is another to…

^ This is what NVC does. Notice how this person is attempting to sound authentic, genuine, helpful, and hopeful. But also notice that they are very subtly positioning themselves as someone who has learned some Very Big Life Lessons, whereas who they are talking to has not. And then they close off. With small sentences. For. Dramatic. Effect. See how wise they are?

I noticed I started taking NVC seriously only after my 'very big life lessons'. I had heard about NVC and never found any great reason to think about it deeply or apply it until my own screw ups. That is all I was trying to convey.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#182

Post by jacobolus »

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

I was present for the last few days of my grandmother’s life, as were all of my aunts and uncles.

Under severe stress, several of them reverted to basically their childhood personalities and relationships with each-other. It surfaced a bunch of half-century-old petty resentments and roles, which was quite surprising for me as an observer who was born 25+ years after their childhood.

Try to cut your brother in law some slack. He’s having a hard time.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#183

Post by joyeuse6701 »

mercutio2 wrote: post #118
dragonwriter wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm hardly dismissing NVC as a tactic, But...you should be. The entire problem you relate is about NVC as an insincere, indirect tactic (most likely, to avoid an ultimatum in a situation where the speaker isn't seeking mutual understanding and accommodation but submissive compliance.) NVC as a tactic relied on an implicit lie about the relationship which forms the context of the communication. As a honest tool in a…

You know, I was about to write a retort that disagreed vehemently, but I re-read and I think you’ve changed my mind. In the presence of a power imbalance, combined with a lack of mutual respect, I think you’re absolutely right that NVC style observations are worse than a direct command. If there’s no explanation that would lead me, the more powerful person, to change my mind about the behavior, then offering conversa…

Based on just this comment alone, your username is fitting :).

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#184

Post by CPLX »

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

His father is dying and you're some asshole that's fucking his sister who's trying to intrude on the situation.

Clearly I don't actually believe that, but it's helpful to start understanding the dynamic by internalizing the other guy's point of view.

In this situation the right approach is to walk away, you can't and shouldn't try to get between someone and their father in a moment of crisis. His sister has standing, you don't. She has to step up and deal with it, or not, at her discretion.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#185

Post by leesalminen »

dougmwne wrote: post #178
leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

That is such a sad situation. I can tell from the language you used that you and your wife must be quite upset with your brother-in-law. And he is clearly very upset and expressing it in a way that's making a difficult time even more difficult. He also had to take on a terrible responsibility when he was the only person available. It might be that there's nothing you can do right now to get him to see things through…

Sage words. I’m sorry that you’ve also been through these family disconnects. It’s heartbreaking.

I will work on myself to forgive and hopefully we can be a family again in the future.

Thank you for taking the time.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#186

Post by snowwrestler »

leesalminen wrote: post #161
freyir wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often seen families get particularly hostile when an in-law involves him or herself with the death or illness of a parent. It doesn't matter whether you're right or what approach you use. They're likely in one of the worst times of their life, and they're not going to be receptive to negotiation tactics. Why is your wife not having this conversation?

Unfortunately they’re both terrible to each other. Always have been, likely always will be. Even in relatively stressless situations they end up at each other’s throats in seconds. The family (not my wife) asked me to talk to my brother-in-law about this because nobody else could get through to him. I totally agree I’m not the right person to get in the middle. There’s just nobody else willing or able to.

If this is the background, then your failure with your brother in law was probably inevitable, but trying was important for maintaining and improving your relationship with the rest of the family.

If you had just said, "forget it, it won't work," and not tried, the outcome for your wife would be the same, but everyone else would also be mad that you didn't try.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#187

Post by maire »

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

Death and illness in the family is particularly stressful and there is no amount of NVC tactics that are up to the task. Your brother in laws protective instincts have kicked in and you will not be able to talk to him rationally until he feels out of danger. Just relax until the limbic system dies down, let your bother in law know you want to help, and then have a calm NVC conversation with your brother in law.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#188

Post by degenerate »

edoloughlin wrote: post #158

When [you use NVC on me], I feel [patronised] because I'm needing some [respect as a fellow human being]. Would you be able to [drop the insincere MBA bullshit and treat me like an adult]?

I never heard of NVC until today, but I'm realizing many of the "fake" people I've communicated with in my business career have been using this type of speaking, and it makes sense why they couldn't give me direct answers - they were hyper-focusing on how their reply should be crafted as NVC instead of simply answering my questions.

It's infuriating when you are simply trying to get something done and the other person is more concerned with the alignment of their spoken words than actually giving you the information you need. Just tell me what I did wrong so I can fix it ffs.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#189

Post by FakeComments »

mercutio2 wrote: post #118
dragonwriter wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm hardly dismissing NVC as a tactic, But...you should be. The entire problem you relate is about NVC as an insincere, indirect tactic (most likely, to avoid an ultimatum in a situation where the speaker isn't seeking mutual understanding and accommodation but submissive compliance.) NVC as a tactic relied on an implicit lie about the relationship which forms the context of the communication. As a honest tool in a…

You know, I was about to write a retort that disagreed vehemently, but I re-read and I think you’ve changed my mind. In the presence of a power imbalance, combined with a lack of mutual respect, I think you’re absolutely right that NVC style observations are worse than a direct command. If there’s no explanation that would lead me, the more powerful person, to change my mind about the behavior, then offering conversa…

Nothing poisons my respect for a manager faster than NVC style communication when they’re not actually listening to me, they’re merely trying to manipulate my emotions: it shows a deep contempt for me, as a person, and a view of me as a piece of equipment to be maintained rather than a partner in a collaboration.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#190

Post by leesalminen »

Zelphyr wrote: post #160
leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

Don't give up on your brother-in-law. He's making seemingly irrational decisions but look at it from is point of view. His father may be dying. Regardless of his relationship with his father, this is a very difficult thing to go through. And then he suddenly has a lot of responsibility placed on him. He's having to answer questions he's never been asked before much less having given much thought to. He's being told t…

Indeed we are an odd species at times. Thank you for taking the time. I will be sure to let him know that we’re here for him, regardless of anything else.
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