European Parliament approves copyright reform • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#491

Post by fock » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 3:59 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #471

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright enforcement has always been about going after big abuses. With some incredibly rare exceptions, generally speaking, nobody has ever been at serious risk for sending one copy of a movie or music CD to a friend. There is too much sharing and too many individual parties to chase after every way people technically violate copyright law. Many of the cases out there involved people sharing on a large scale. Examp…

10-15 years ago there were a lot of stories about teenagers getting sued for ridiculous sums for sharing a song.

yet nothing in the reform prevents laws which base the fines on missed revenue.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#492

Post by Roxo » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 3:59 PM UTC

rmind wrote: post #301

golergka wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could vote for your country to exit EU.

It is not the EU which is the problem. It is the reluctance of the political establishment (both within the countries and across the EU) to acknowledge the opposition to such laws.

The non-democratic EU is not the problem? The people having the real power in the EU are not elected (the European Commission).

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#493

Post by MarchHare » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

Xelbair wrote: post #381

antientropic wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy does not mean that you always get what you want. A majority in parliament and the council were in favor of this law, so you can't say it's undemocratic.

is it democratic for most elected governments to keep pushing for legislature again and again, waiting a bit between attempts? Repeat it ad nauseam um 'till people get bored of protesting. Just a reminder that quite a lot of people are against second brexit referendum because repeating it would be undemocratic. Remember ACTA? how many times it was tried again and again under different name? The only ones who wanted t…

>is it democratic for most elected governments to keep pushing for legislature again and again, waiting a bit between attempts? Repeat it ad nauseam um 'till people get bored of protesting.

Yes. This is how slavery was ended in the British empire and how the civil rights act passed in the US.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#494

Post by _bxg1 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

jostmey wrote: post #370

Here's what will probably happen. A handful of websites and news outlets will create blanket legal agreements allowing anyone to freely link to their content. There may be some online paperwork that flies back and forth between the content provider and the person wanting to create the link. Websites offering these blanket agreements will flourish. Websites that do not provide their content for free will go unnoticed…

I think the law precludes such agreements; i.e., publishers are forced to claim license fees for their work whether they want to or not.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#495

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:00 PM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #331

jacquesm wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to move out of the sphere of influence of the copyright cartels you're going to have to achieve escape velocity at some point. Those places where copyright infringement is not going to result in repercussions are generally not worth living in.

While it might not seem so, I totally favor the enforcement of copyright laws (I still think they are over the top in their current form, but anyway, I am not against them). I just think that the individual user is responsible, not a platform. And this is what the big problem with all this is. We are living in a platform world as this eases things, yet they are given a task they can not possibly complete without esse…

There never was something like a European Youtube before, the closest we ever got was 'dailymotion' and that suffered greatly from France's idiotic policy of handing out money with strings attached to be able to veto exits to US companies.

Youtube became as big as it did whilst massively supporting copyright infringement, if not for Google they would have surely been killed. The bulk of the content on Youtube does not infringe copyright.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#496

Post by DCKing » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

clarkmoody wrote: post #435

It's called counter-revolution. Many revolutionary movements are eventually co-opted by elites (often the elites of the overthrown system) for their own purposes. Sometimes the new system put in place after the counter-revolution is worse than the system the original revolution sought to overthrow. The cypherpunks foresaw the dystopian surveillance state decades before the reality and tried to get out in front of it…

I think it politicizes the early internet too much to call it a revolution in the political sense. The early internet was a place of experimentation with new communication, but I think it goes way too far to call it a 'movement'.

By its nature it attracted a bunch of people with particular political persuasions. But it wasn't only people of those persuasions, and neither was the entire thing an instrument for those people and their persuasions. Technology allowed for newer and richer forms of communication, and things just happened from there. And this is where we are now, sadly.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#497

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #117

Chris2048 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solve what problem? The problem of lobbies in general? No, it doesn't. The problem of EU lobbying, and inter-national divide-and-conquer? Yes, to some extent. Framing this as politician's fallacy, action for the sake of action, suggests that lobbying won't be worse in the EU than at a local level. In reality, it's easier to consolidate a smaller same-nation population, than multiple international ones. Just look at h…

That suggests further splitting up the UK would also improve the political situation; do you support such a proposal?

Yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolved_English_parliament

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#498

Post by Chris2048 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:02 PM UTC

cr1895 wrote: post #103

Chris2048 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a referendum, who cares what the polls say.

What was the referendum beyond a large-scale poll? It wasn't binding in nature.

Very well:

There was a large-scale poll, who cares what the small-scale polls say.

Of course, referendums aren't really polls. Polls have no official effect, you can freely refuse them and lose nothing.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#499

Post by fnord123 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #295

philpem wrote: post #226

As I said on one of the other threads... 26 March 2019. The day the Internet died. (at least in Europe) But of course -- "the Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it" -- so what we're likely to see is a massive spike in people streaming video over encrypted tunnels into other countries. That'd be interesting. It'd render GeoIP rather moot, among other things. I suspect the EU and Member States'…

What's weird to me is: Europe isn't exactly a content powerhouse. Why are they so concerned with copyright protections?

>Why are they so concerned with copyright protections?

Is the way this legislation got through because of nasty lobbying? What if it was brought in to stem the tide of American tech companies destroying more European businesses by hiding taxes and dodging copyrights.

>Europe isn't exactly a content powerhouse.

Europe has plenty of 'content powerhouse' companies. They just don't wear their nationality on their chest when they sell to the US.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#500

Post by mirimir » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:03 PM UTC

random878 wrote: post #312

As someone who grew up alongside the internet, I wonder if this is just part of the bigger picture of where the internet has always been heading... The bigger, more popular, and ubiquitous it became the more corporate and political powers were going to seek to rule it. Now were are at an age of internet giants with the GDP of small countries, and political elections being swayed by the bovine herds of Facebook and Tw…

Yes, the Internet caught many "corporate and political powers" by surprise. But now they're getting it locked down.

> I think many will stop seeing the darkweb as a place of CP and drug dealing, and more of an internet free from regulation.

You mean Tor, I presume. But Freenet is still around, although it's too risky to use it, except via Tor. And there are other overlay networks. Some basically just use VPN connections (such as tinc).

And they were always about being "free from regulation". It's just that hobbyists, activists and people into recreational drugs and CP were early adopters.

If you haven't read Vernor Vinge's True Names lately, I highly recommend it.