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European Parliament approves copyright reform

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Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#51

Post by mweibel »

geff82 wrote: post #22
stuaxo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you moving to ?

Switzerland is the current plan. It will enable me to keep my business in Germany while not living in CrazyLand myself. I also considered USA and Canada, yet this would mean more problems (at least at the beginning). I am quite familiar with Switzerland and I appreciate their special political system a lot.

Please note that there might be similar things happening in Switzerland, too:

https://www.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/2019/03/23/demonstratio...

(german only, sorry)

It's all a bit different than in the EU because people may be able to vote against that at some point.. Whether that happens is another question entirely, though.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#52

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

cotelletta wrote: post #26
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my position has been that platforms have been built on the knowledge that they're heavily used for content theft but that they're shielded from liability for it unfairly. (See Section 230 here in the US). And I think the tech industry is a pox on our news media and the money they need to do real investigative work. (See Apple taking like a solid 50% revenue on their news service.) I'm reasonably happy the EU is…

There is no way this new law actually protects little guys. All the exemptions for small platforms go away once that platform exists for 3 years. After that you turn into another Google and Facebook. So is the EU somehow expecting a new market to open up for alternative players who only expect to be around for 3 years, before closing up shop? Who is going to invest in that? How is it going to make "big tech" less pow…

> It is stunning that critical thinking is now so bad that they can convince a majority of MEPs this is not a complete fantasy.

I don't think MEPs are dumb or incompetent for anything other than choosing the wrong people to advise them on technical issues. Consider that not everyone necessarily understands how internet content even works.

Politicians don't even seem to understand that you can't "just scan content that infringes on copyright"; that you have to scan the content precisely to find out if it does so.

What worries me is how they don't admit that they don't understand the situation. That they blindly believe that they can get a rough understanding of things and create good laws easily.

What worries me even more is how they ignored the clear protest from large parts of the population and just powered through it as fast as they could. It's the same as with GDPR; they only hurt the small guys because they don't understand what they're even making the law for.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#53

Post by antientropic »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #16

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

Democracy does not mean that you always get what you want. A majority in parliament and the council were in favor of this law, so you can't say it's undemocratic.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#54

Post by coffeeaddicted »

trkh0 wrote: post #6

Wonder how everyone here who keep praising and extolling everything the EU does has to say about this. Edit: being downvoted to oblivion suggests either that they are in denial or there are many paid shills around or both, either way I rest my case.

It's the biggest blow the EU has given me so far. And yes, my support for the EU got weakened a lot by this. Just... the guys voting for this law had generally been the converative and more nationalistic parties which usually argue against the EU.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#55

Post by cbg0 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #48
pmlnr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they voted for lies.

Which is a case in point about the will of the people. Especially in very complicated situations, the people do not necessarily understand the impact of their choices, which is why they select representatives to act in their stead.

Judging by how things have progressed, it doesn't seem like those elected representatives have a much better understanding of the impact either.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#56

Post by haywirez »

A good thread explaining the next steps: https://twitter.com/why0hy/status/1110514962366189568

TL;DR summary: The directive will have to be implemented in national legislations, a ~2 year long process. There are a bunch of contradictory laws and regulations to be reconciled. Your app or platform can probably ignore the new rules as they're too unclear and unenforceable - but do join trade associations that can provide good, reliable legal support.

[Edit] here's another article from EFF explaining the next steps:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/eus-parliament-signs-d...

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#57

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

trkh0 wrote: post #38
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my position has been that platforms have been built on the knowledge that they're heavily used for content theft but that they're shielded from liability for it unfairly. (See Section 230 here in the US). And I think the tech industry is a pox on our news media and the money they need to do real investigative work. (See Apple taking like a solid 50% revenue on their news service.) I'm reasonably happy the EU is…

Funny how it's always the google haters: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ocdtrekkie

Hey, I hate google almost as much as people who eat while on the computer, but I still think this law is dumb. Many have already pointed out how it actually plays directly into the hands of Google and other big tech.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#58

Post by antientropic »

sprash wrote: post #44
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #16

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

The EU is not democratic at all. Especially because the unelected European Commission has executive and legislative power. The parliament only has veto rights and even at that it spectacularly fails as Art. 17 shows. The whole thing was a backroom deal between Germany (which wants gas from Russia) and France (which apparently really likes ultra restrictive Copyright). We would have the same result without this fake t…

These are pretty weak arguments to get rid of the EU. In many democracies, the government has the power to propose legislation. And what democracy doesn't have backroom deals?

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#59

Post by Asooka »

sprash wrote: post #44
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #16

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

The EU is not democratic at all. Especially because the unelected European Commission has executive and legislative power. The parliament only has veto rights and even at that it spectacularly fails as Art. 17 shows. The whole thing was a backroom deal between Germany (which wants gas from Russia) and France (which apparently really likes ultra restrictive Copyright). We would have the same result without this fake t…

Abolishing the EU would have the unfortunate consequence of unmitigated Russian influence over all of East Europe. The system needs to change, but abolishing the EU entirely would be a net loss.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#60

Post by piokoch »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #16

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

Yup, for me EU democracy looks like Roman Republic democracy at the turn of eras. People living at the times of First Triumvirate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Triumvirate) also thought that they live in democracy, they could vote and choose their representatives. Yet, as we know today, no decision could have been made without agreement of Julius Caesar, Gnaeus Magnus and Marcus Crassus.
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