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European Parliament approves copyright reform

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Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#71
post #59
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is not democratic at all. Especially because the unelected European Commission has executive and legislative power. The parliament only has veto rights and even at that it spectacularly fails as Art. 17 shows. The whole thing was a backroom deal between Germany (which wants gas from Russia) and France (which apparently really likes ultra restrictive Copyright). We would have the same result without this fake t…

Abolishing the EU would have the unfortunate consequence of unmitigated Russian influence over all of East Europe. The system needs to change, but abolishing the EU entirely would be a net loss.

> East Europe

* Europe

> Russian influence

* Russian, Chinese, American and whoever else wants a piece of the cake.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#72
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they voted for lies.

Ah, so when you disagree, people voted for lies? But when you agree then it’s the will of the people?

Oh, come on.

Yes, mislead will is also a will.

However, the Brexit vote should never have been legally binding, it's now how referendums work in England. The people who wanted Brexit literally said out loud we lied next morning, the resigned and/or disappeared.

Sure, it's the will of the people...

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#73

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

The EU Parliament, who we vote for every 5 years (and have elections coming up), vote for a law. You don't like said law, therefore it's undemocratic?

The way the parliament is elected is quite fair - it gives a little more power to people in smaller countries, but that's not unusual (UK westminster constituencies vary from 22k to 120k. U.S. congress areas are more even, ranging from 500k to 1 million). There's an argument that it should be more even than the current 11:1 ratio, but we call the U.S. senate democratic and that's a 69:1 ratio.

The actual choice of MEP comes down to a proportionate election, meaning that if you get 15% of the votes, you get 15% of the MEPs. This beats fptp systems where MPs in the house of commons are elected with as few as 30% of the votes cast.

Voting for a representative is the very essence of representative democracy. Perhaps we should have direct democracy. As it happens I watched an episode of The Orville[0] last night which covered this scenario.

Personally I'm a fan of representative democracy. It's the worst system except for all the others. I expect my representitive to work full time in understanding proposals and voting on my behalf, but they are a representitive, not a delegate. This is where direct PR falls down (who gets the seats is down to the party, not to the voter. I can't vote for Candidate B rather than candidate A if they are part of the same party. STV works better in this case, although 90% of voters don't really care and in the UK 80% don't even know who their MP is!

[0] https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Majority_Rule

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if you see EU parliament as "lobby-bought", you can accept there is good reason to oppose the EU, and stop calling brexiteers "nationalists".

Except local parliaments are also lobby-bought, so that doesn't solve the problem. Brexit is the politician's fallacy in action.

This is an interesting problem to me. I sometimes think that having multiple locally bought lobbies with individual priorities is preferred to a single giant lobby doing winner take all on large scales.

It’s pessimistic as it assumes always corruption. But pragmatic as it minimizes corruption by maximiing the inefficiency and cost necessary for lobbies to spread cash more thinly and come into conflict with lobby arbitrage country by country. For example, copyright lobby might win in country #1, but hardware lobby wins in country #2 and we end up with conflicting laws in different countries. As opposed to both countries using the same laws so it comes down to which country spends the most money in total gets their law in both countries.

Of course, I think it would be better to have a law set that represents will of the people and Pareto frontier of max indicidual benefit and community benefit.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#75
post #27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... in case of Brexit it is because people voted to leave the EU.

No, they voted for lies.

Hey, I'm as onside with getting rid of Brexit as anyone, but a democracy is voting for a person or a platform. That person may be a horrible lying bastard, or the platform may be so full of holes you could drain spaghetti on it. That's just the way it works. People vote for the thing that they vote for. Now, if you decided to overturn the vote because the voters made a bad choice... that's pretty much the opposite of democracy, even if it results in a better choice.

I think it would be interesting if there was a law that you couldn't say something untrue in an election. That would be incredible. But, of course, then all your politicians would be in jail. As it stands, it falls on the opposition to eloquently communicate the truth in a believable way when someone lies. If they fail, I'm not sure you can blame democracy.

To be a bit less pointed, I understand that you are angry, but your anger is not effective. If the Brexit side lied (and I'm inclined to agree with you here), how did Brexit win? How would you improve the situation? If your answers are something like "Because Brexiteers are stupid racists" and "There isn't anything you can do", then you'll never get any farther. You need spend your time learning how to communicate to the people who voted for Brexit and to get your message across in a way that they can understand.

Otherwise you just become the angry guy on the internet, which isn't really satisfying for anyone.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#76
This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissing any human cost those practices entail.

You want to regain your freedom? Use not-for-profit, decentralized platforms instead. You can use Mastodon [0] instead of Twitter, PeerTube [1] instead of YouTube, Aether [2] instead of reddit, etcetera. Other interesting P2P projects are DAT's Beaker Browser [3], and ZeroNet [4]. None of those will have problems with Article 13.

[0] https://mastodon.social [1] https://joinpeertube.org [2] https://getaether.net [3] https://beakerbrowser.com/ [4] https://zeronet.io/

EDIT: "Such [content-sharing] services should not include services that have a main purpose other than that of enabling users to upload and share a large amount of copyright-protected content with the purpose of obtaining profit from that activity." This is from page 62 of the document wherein Article 13/17 is to be found.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#77
post #47
post #20

Are we able to see, who voted how? I would like to have a website showing you which persons not to vote, in your location for the upcoming eu votes in may.

The information is not yet published, however Julia Reda ( https://twitter.com/Senficon/status/1110514210176462850 ) is working on it. Also, I would suggest voting on a party-bases i.e. voting for Pirates in your region.

The question even is if i can vote for the pirates in my region. So far i haven't even seen the slightest bit of voting information for the upcoming vote.

Well nearly no information. I had a flyer for the SPD Senior Citizen Group in my mailbox...

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#78

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

I want to see who voted yes, plus I want to read for each MEP a short statement explaining why they think it is a good idea. Better yet, a short video fragment with their statement, so the media can use that to make them look stupid when this legislation turns out to be a total failure.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#80
post #19

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

Which part of this was not democratic?

When you have massive parts of the population telling you they're not going to vote for you again if you support a piece of legislation, I'd say it's reasonable to say you are betraying your voters when you don't even reconsider your position.
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