Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scary? It’s not 1978 anymore.
I don't get it. What happened in 1978?
I think they meant that it would have been scarier in the 70s because NYC had a lot more crime back then.
Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
81–90 of 114 posts
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#82Unintended consequence: driving in Manhattan will be de facto off-limits to the poor.
Poor people don't own cars, but subsidize the cars of those who do. Congestion pricing helps to fix that. The book Deschooling Society has a good explanation about how the design of public roads is used as a means of social control. Ctrl-F for the section on mechanical donkeys. https://monoskop.org/images/1/17/Illich_Ivan_Deschooling_Soc...
Poor people do own cars, it’s the rich that think that they don’t.
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#83They need to make the toll dynamic.
Eg. "New York's streets can optimally handle 1 million journeys per day. If the number of journeys is above/below that for 3 straight months, we increase/decrease the toll by 10%.
That way the roads stay near peak efficiency without needing the politicians to get involved every time the streets get too busy or too empty.
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#84London made the mistake of excluding Taxis from their congestion toll scheme.
Now nearly all roads are jam packed with Taxis and Ubers, and no regular people drive at all anymore.
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#85Unintended consequence: driving in Manhattan will be de facto off-limits to the poor.
yes. when there is a competition for limited resources, the poorer you are the less likely you will have access to the resources. That's how it works. No matter what you do you could never change this. You will simply create an alternative (and/or parallel) system with its own poors.
You could go full socialist and divide the parking/road space exactly equally amongst everyone.
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many nice things that are off limits to the poor. I'm not sure if driving in manhattan should have a special exemption. Driving in manahatten is far from a necessity.
> nice things > driving in manhattan I think you may be confused.
Being driven around Manhattan is a nice thing, when congestion isn’t a concern.
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#87London made the mistake of excluding Taxis from their congestion toll scheme. Now nearly all roads are jam packed with Taxis and Ubers, and no regular people drive at all anymore.
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Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#88I'm glad to see NYC catch up to its European counterparts. This could do wonders for the air pollution inequities that exist in the city.
London did it, and it had the effect of pushing people onto buses, taxis, and private hrie vehicles. The vast majority of those use diesel. London has terrible air quality as a result.
You need to give incentives for electric vehicles (especially if that's electric buses) and disincentives to diesel for it to really work.
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scary? It’s not 1978 anymore.
I don't get it. What happened in 1978?
See this excellent documentary:
Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's considered a use tax, like the existing gasoline taxes used to fund roads and highway tolls.
The difference is that the subway ticket directly finances your subway ride. It's just like how a private subway company would have financed it, so calling it a "tax" just because the train is run by a government entity is a bit weird.
Your subway fare goes into the city budget. The cost of the subway system comes out of the city budget. Your subway fare only "directly finances" the subway system as long as it's convenient to think of it that way. If there was ever a huge surplus of subway money, it would go to other projects. If there was ever a huge deficit elsewhere, money would come out of the subway system.