Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 114 posts

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#41

Post by roywiggins »

ams6110 wrote: post #20
roywiggins wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the NYC transit is frantically doggy paddling to keep its head above water. Decades of underfunding tunnel maintenance is coming due.

More like decades of incompetence and corruption.

Very likely, but you can chart the actual funding over time, whereas a sudden spike in incompetence and corruption seems somewhat unlikely. There has to be some causal reason why everything is hitting the fan now, not ten years ago or ten years from now.

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#42

Post by randyrand »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #39

Unintended consequence: driving in Manhattan will be de facto off-limits to the poor.

There are many nice things that are off limits to the poor. I'm not sure if driving in manhattan should have a special exemption. Driving in manahatten is far from a necessity.

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#43

Post by BurningFrog »

ses1984 wrote: post #6
hourislate wrote: post #2

I'm indifferent and glad I don't live there but why not just charge what it should cost to use Public Transportation/Subways? Why look for ways to subsidize it by taxing everything else but the people who use it?

Isn't congestion pricing taxing people who use the roads? An Uber driver uses the roads a lot more than your average New Yorker, what taxes exist to cover that imbalance? (asking in earnest) Earmarking tax dollars for projects is kind of meaningless. Subsidizing public transportation is a good idea anyway. High costs of transportation disproportionately hurt poorer people. If you're not for public transportation then…

Paying for using something isn't usually considered a tax.

Do you think of buying a subway ticket as a tax on travel?

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#44

Post by cwperkins »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #39

Unintended consequence: driving in Manhattan will be de facto off-limits to the poor.

They passed low income metro cards last year for this reason. There is no great option here, there needs to be a new tax to raise money for new infrastructure and congestion pricing is the best of the worst options. It gives the city the flexibility to regulate future traffic flows and raises money for infrastructure. Raising taxes on the wealthy is a non-starter in NY state because they are not competitive as it is and the rich get up and leave.

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#45

Post by wyldfire »

BurningFrog wrote: post #43
ses1984 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't congestion pricing taxing people who use the roads? An Uber driver uses the roads a lot more than your average New Yorker, what taxes exist to cover that imbalance? (asking in earnest) Earmarking tax dollars for projects is kind of meaningless. Subsidizing public transportation is a good idea anyway. High costs of transportation disproportionately hurt poorer people. If you're not for public transportation then…

Paying for using something isn't usually considered a tax. Do you think of buying a subway ticket as a tax on travel?

It's considered a use tax, like the existing gasoline taxes used to fund roads and highway tolls.

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#48

Post by Alex3917 »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #39

Unintended consequence: driving in Manhattan will be de facto off-limits to the poor.

Poor people don't own cars, but subsidize the cars of those who do. Congestion pricing helps to fix that.

The book Deschooling Society has a good explanation about how the design of public roads is used as a means of social control. Ctrl-F for the section on mechanical donkeys. https://monoskop.org/images/1/17/Illich_Ivan_Deschooling_Soc...

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#49

Post by jhall1468 »

randyrand wrote: post #42
ARandomerDude wrote: post #39

Unintended consequence: driving in Manhattan will be de facto off-limits to the poor.

There are many nice things that are off limits to the poor. I'm not sure if driving in manhattan should have a special exemption. Driving in manahatten is far from a necessity.

> nice things

> driving in manhattan

I think you may be confused.

Re: Congestion Pricing in Manhattan Close to Approval

#50

Post by zone411 »

jshaqaw wrote: post #35
ams6110 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists don't use the subway much. It's rather confusing and even scary.

Scary? It’s not 1978 anymore.

It's definitely not 1978 in terms of violent crime but haven't you encountered aggressive panhandlers or obviously mentally ill people? If there is something violent going on, the vast majority of passengers won't intervene (see the recent attack on an elderly woman where everyone was just filming).
Post reply on HN