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More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

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Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#161

Post by cogman10 »

chmln wrote: post #159
cogman10 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> accredited lab Accredited by who? > detailed report with reference ranges, recommendations, and caveats. I can generate detailed reports. With references and ranges. My point still stands, if you think what they are perscribing works, go get tested again with a different lab. More than likely you'll have just as negative a report come back with exactly the same recommendations. Naturopathy is pseudoscience.

Seems like you got an axe to grind, but I'll bite. This is the lab in my case: http://rmalab.com/about-us/accreditation > Naturopathy is pseudoscience Agreed. However, many NDs are not exactly "naturopathic", but more like alternative doctors that can fill in the gaps if your conventional MD is not very helpful.

The lab is accredited, and from my limited googling looks like a legitimate accreditation.

However, I question the accreditation standards. This lab offers

Hair element analysis http://rmalab.com/medical-laboratory-tests/environmental/hai...

Which is bunk https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/19343...

and

Nutrigenomix http://rmalab.com/Nutrigenomix

also bunk (or at very least, extremely overselling benefits) https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn2012145

NDs are snake oil sales men peddling placebos. The axe I have to grind is against people offering fake solutions to real problems. Pseudo science medicines, including naturopathy, gets people killed.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stephan-meningitis-deat...

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#162

Post by copperx »

Deestan wrote: post #13
devmunchies wrote: post #7

Is it possible to grow enough food in your backyard to live off of (plus chickens as a yard waste disposal) if you also work full time? I can't even eat at a restaurant without knowing if they use organic produce.

Organic produce uses tons of pesticides some of which are really nasty (but hey it's "natural" copper sulfate), so that's not a solution to anything.

Ok, now you got me scared because copper is associated with Alzheimer's disease.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#163

Post by copperx »

devmunchies wrote: post #40
Deestan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic produce uses tons of pesticides some of which are really nasty (but hey it's "natural" copper sulfate), so that's not a solution to anything.

i thought organic by definition meant that it didn't use pesticides.

Organic by definition means carbon-based. So the rule is: "no synthetic pesticides, only organic ones."

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#164

Post by fencepost »

nubbins wrote: post #144
Alex3917 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually common in startup founders who sell their startups and then start eating expensive sushi all the time. My understanding is that several billionaires in silicon valley have mild Parkinson's-like tremors because of this.

High end omakase meals generally come with 1 or 2 .5 oz pieces of tuna. Even at 3x a day it would be comparable to one can of tuna. Of course mercury varies heavily from fish to fish but unless they were living on tuna/swordfish this sounds like an urban legend or could be something else in raw fish like liver parasites or bacteria.

Sushi-grade tuna and I suspect tuna steaks are much more likely to be from the larger tuna species. At the very high end you get the special cases where truly massive fish are sold at auction for absurd prices - the same fish that got to that size by eating a huge number of smaller fish and thus concentrating mercury. Canned "solid" albacore or "white" tuna has the same issue, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was still lower than fish sold for sushi or steaks.

Chunk "light" tuna on the other hand tends to come from smaller species and pretty much as a direct consequence has lower mercury levels.

Based on the numbers in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_in_fish, canned light tuna and skipjack have 1/3 to 1/2 the mercury found in albacore and yellowfin tuna and 1/4 the levels found in bigeye. Notably, those 3 all run 2-10x the size of the smaller species used in "chunk light."

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#165

Post by darpa_escapee »

lixtra wrote: post #128
munk-a wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a terrible viewpoint, life should be an enjoyable experience and if people (or pesticide companies) are lowering that enjoyment we as a society should act and throw heaps of regulations to force a better outcome. I have no pity for any profit margin that even comes close to my care for our collective enjoyment of life.

A lot of people value pesticides/herbicides/fungicides because they make food affordable or available. In the past people starved due to lack of pest control [1,2]. Without modern agriculture it’s doubtful if 7 billion humans could survive on this planet and their footprint would be even larger. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

The Great Irish Famine is less about potato blight and more about an economic system that saw the majority of crops grown during famine exported for profit, while those who tilled the soil were forced to rely on a single monoculture crop to sustain themselves (the potato).

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#166

Post by specialist »

Deestan wrote: post #13
devmunchies wrote: post #7

Is it possible to grow enough food in your backyard to live off of (plus chickens as a yard waste disposal) if you also work full time? I can't even eat at a restaurant without knowing if they use organic produce.

Organic produce uses tons of pesticides some of which are really nasty (but hey it's "natural" copper sulfate), so that's not a solution to anything.

This article explains the use of copper compounds for both conventional and organic apple crops is about the same.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/05/23/a-behind-the-s...

The author solicited input from many farmers. He openly admits the official record keeping is lacking. So in some cases he has to infer amounts.

Author also gives examples of organic crops which are (generally) more damaging than conventional. Such as organic bananas. TIL.

But the general gist is that organic techniques use much less of much less toxic pesticides.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#167

Post by jrmg »

rubicon33 wrote: post #34
geddy wrote: post #28

Watched a great documentary on Netflix called `Stink!` that was about all the crap found in all sorts of products under the hidden phrase "fragrance" (or in some cases, "parfum"). All sorts of chemicals you've never heard of to make those garbage bags smell like apple orchards. Very informative and, if you're like me and are constantly panicked that everything's trying to kill you, I recommend it.

Curious about this part: > Very informative and, if you're like me and are constantly panicked that everything's trying to kill you, I recommend it. So are you saying this will help me STOP worrying that everything is trying to kill me? I'm kinda to the point where I feel like if you aren't eating organic broccoli for breakfast lunch and dinner, than you're killing yourself. So I'm not sure I need any MORE informatio…

Whenever I feel this way, I try to remember that humans have _never_ lived longer, healthier lives than we do now. On balance, we’re doing pretty well.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#168

Post by NeedMoreTea »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #165
lixtra wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people value pesticides/herbicides/fungicides because they make food affordable or available. In the past people starved due to lack of pest control [1,2]. Without modern agriculture it’s doubtful if 7 billion humans could survive on this planet and their footprint would be even larger. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagues_of_Egypt [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

The Great Irish Famine is less about potato blight and more about an economic system that saw the majority of crops grown during famine exported for profit, while those who tilled the soil were forced to rely on a single monoculture crop to sustain themselves (the potato).

Irish merchants and farmers had complained and demonstrated against the export ban and closure of ports during a previous famine as prices had plummeted.

It was far more the over dependence on one variety and potatoes being such a large part of diet from tiny farms being so common. Presumably from having been divided too many times on inheritance.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#169

Post by tdeck »

chmln wrote: post #140
soared wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Naturopathy or naturopathic medicine is a form of alternative medicine that employs an array of pseudoscientific practices branded as "natural", "non-invasive", and as promoting "self-healing". The ideology and methods of naturopathy are based on vitalism and folk medicine, rather than evidence-based medicine.

This wasn't my experience. Where my family doctor and other practitioners ignored my thoughts and refused to get me tested out of personal skepticism, my ND listened to me and provided appropriate means of testing. At no point was I suggested sketchy ancient 'healing' methods.

There are all kinds of branches to alternative medicine. One niche is the "ancient" style treatments you describe. Another is homeopathy. Another is various electrical and medical devices. And still another is an industry trying to sell chelation therapy to people who don't need it. Obviously I'm not a doctor and not familiar with your case, but that might be what others are responding to (e.g. https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/08/08/chelation-therapy-fad-t...)

It's not surprising that they listened to you and provided treatment, the entire brand of naturopathy/alternative medicine is based on making the patient feel heard and then telling the patient what they want to hear, which is "I can help you", whether or not it's actually true.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#170

Post by feanaro »

korethr wrote: post #137
primroot wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever heard of systemic pesticides? "Pesticides can be classified based upon their biological mechanism function or application method. Most pesticides work by poisoning pests. A systemic pesticide moves inside a plant following absorption by the plant. With insecticides and most fungicides, this movement is usually upward (through the xylem) and outward. Increased efficiency may be a result. Systemic insecticides, wh…

No, I had not. Today I learned a thing. Thank you. Clearly systemic pesticides will need to be addressed differently from those which simply coat the crop and leave residues, but I remain confident that washing produce before cooking and consumption is enough to reduce the latter to safe levels.

Sadly, it's probably not universally true: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.jafc.7b03118

In my country, washing things isn't some kind of oddity some people do so that realizing why they do it makes it some cool new trick. Rather, everyone washes their produce for exactly this reason, but this study suggests it's far from foolproof.

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