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Apple announces Apple Card credit card

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Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#651

Post by abalone »

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

> I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing... How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming?

You're misunderstanding how card networks work a little bit here. This is a credit card, not a payment processing service. Two different sides of the network. "Deplatforming" refers to getting kicked off a given payment processor, which is an entity that gives a merchant access to a card network (in this case Mastercard).

Perhaps issuers like Goldman Sachs could start banning their customers from using their card at certain merchants. But this wouldn't come from Apple -- they've already said they've engineered themselves out of that kind of control.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#653

Post by pmart123 »

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple is using Mastercard as the rails, Goldman as the issuer, and another company is the processor. Therefore, it isn't really doing any of the payment processing, but it is more similar to a Nordstrom's or Saks' card.

I think Apple is hoping that the Apple card will get more users to adopt Apple Pay at the point of sale vs. dominate payment processing. Apple collects a small merchant loyalty fee when someone uses Apple Pay at the point of sale, even in cases where the card being used is Amex or Chase. My guess is the overall adoption of Apple Pay is a bigger win for Apple than the card itself. I am not sure there is much cause of concern here yet as people like their CC points, perks, and rewards? It doesn't seem like Apple has leverage here unless everyone stops carrying credit cards?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#654

Post by pmart123 »

1337biz wrote: post #371
acjohnson55 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh great, now I feel much better.

In particular considering how consumer centric Goldman Sachs operates...

I think they are trying to with the Marcus brand. Once Goldman became a bank holding company, it made it hard for them to operate a large prop trading unit and other more alternative areas. I think Goldman felt that since it had to operate more like a bank with a bank charter, why not become a bank? It would be interesting to see the financials behind the Apple & Goldman deal as Goldman probably needs Apple more than Apple needs Goldman given the CAC on banking is very high.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#655

Post by empath75 »

r00fus wrote: post #496
astura wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fidelity Visa is 2% on everything, no cap, no annual fee. Citi DoubleCash is 2% on everything, dunno if there's a cap, no annual fee. (you have to redeem into a bank account, not as statement credit, to get the full 2%) USAA Limitless is 2.5% cash back on everything, no cap. (military only, no longer available), no annual fee. If you have enough cash invested with Merrill Edge ($100,000, including IRAs) the Bank of A…

> Discover IT Miles earns 3% cash back on everything the first year, churnable (you can get a new one every year), no cap, no annual fee. I had to look this up - seemed way to good to be true - based on this site [1], it's "Discover: 1.5 Miles per $1 spent on all purchases." All your other references check out - the Alliant seems very interesting. Fidelity requires a Fidelity bank account - too much effort. However,…

I thoroughly believe that late fees and such are taxes on poverty and contribute to inequality, but I feel like without at least a nominal one, people will just pay bills late all the time. I suppose they’ve done research on this but it seems risky.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#656

Post by tooop »

eridius wrote: post #213
throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

Because of the card, data must be in the cloud but it is most likely encrypted and keys are on your device that is why Apple can claim that they don't know anything about what you buy. This doesn't change the fact that GS and MC does know where are you shopping. The only good thing about this card are fees and cashback, everything else is either nothing new or special (not sure about Apple card, but where i am from most CCs come with travel insurance as well).

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#657

Post by baby »

lol768 wrote: post #438

This is interesting to observe from the UK. - Cashback is generally lower here because interchange fees are regulated/capped to 0.3% for personal credit cards and 0.2% for personal debit cards. Offers of 2% cashback simply won't work outside the US so I'll be curious to see how (if?) they try and expand this globally. - "All of the spending tracking and other information is stored directly on the device, not Apple’s…

From a UK perspective this card doesn’t make much sense as Monzo or Revolut are probably way better products. For the US there is pretty much zero competitors as banks are stuck in the past.

As for storing transactions on device only, there’s probably an encrypted backup on iCloud.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#659

Post by baby »

amluto wrote: post #376

This sounds like a mediocre credit card (2% back but only with Apple Pay — if you’re okay with cash back on only some transactions, there are much better cards) with some benefit in the form of a nice experience. I guess that, if Apple’s marketing power can sell a ton of these, there’s considerable upside for them, but it doesn’t sound like a truly impressive innovation.

This. I don’t see why you would move from Monzo or Revolut for this.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#660

Post by eridius »

tooop wrote: post #656
eridius wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

Because of the card, data must be in the cloud but it is most likely encrypted and keys are on your device that is why Apple can claim that they don't know anything about what you buy. This doesn't change the fact that GS and MC does know where are you shopping. The only good thing about this card are fees and cashback, everything else is either nothing new or special (not sure about Apple card, but where i am from m…

Fees, cashback, and the convenience, yeah.
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