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Apple announces Apple Card credit card

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Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#211

Post by bilbo0s »

SonicSoul wrote: post #192
Swizec wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

the difference is that there re dozens of CC companies which do not share information. Apple already has a lot more info on users then CCs do. edit Apple knows a lot about you IF you use apple products. Didn't think this would be a controversial point :)

???

Wait? What?

Apple doesn't know what I buy. At least not currently. How can they know that? Only Mastercard and Visa know that.

Maybe Apple could buy that information from Mastercard or Visa? Is that what you're saying?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#213

Post by eridius »

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#214

Post by Gpetrium »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #118
AznHisoka wrote: post #104

Just allow me to create as many 'virtual' credit cards from a single card and that's enough. Every single provider that promised that feature has either underwhelmed, or gone out of business.

Yes. I'm so sick of businesses relying on people not cancelling to exist, and thereby making their calcellation process as time consuming and obtuse as possible to reduce consumers chances of cancelling. Consumers should be able to just NOT pay for a service, and then it's on the service-provider to turn off the customer's access. I can't tell you the amount of services I've past up on simply because I don't want to…

There is a tricky balance to the point you have raised. If the business makes the process too easy, the attrition will increase and the pricing structure will have to go up for the remaining buyers. When that happens, you would come in here to complain that the prices of goods & services are exorbitantly high.

"Invest some time in a better product" is not an appropriate solution since consumers have different incentive processes and those incentives changes throughout their lives. There is a diminishing return on investment for the producer of the g&s and they have to find the right balance.

The process of increasing cancellation cost (e.g. time), inadvertently puts the onus on the consumer to do their due diligence prior to purchasing a product.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#215

Post by droithomme »

bilbo0s wrote: post #196
Swizec wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

Point taken. You could also argue that having multiple big entities doing payment processing is better for everyone to the extent that they are competing. I mean, Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple. (And to take out Amazon and Walmart as well if they decide to jump into this thing.) So rather than wishing that Apple were NOT a payment processor, I guess a…

> Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple

The images shown are labeled the "Apple Mastercard". So it's a Mastercard with Apple branding.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#216

Post by twostorytower »

jscholes wrote: post #208

> there’s no credit card number, CVV, expiration date, or signature, with all that authorization information stored directly in the Apple Wallet app. I understand the point is to increase Apple Pay usage, but how would I use this card with online websites which don't support Apple Pay?

That information is available in the Apple Wallet app, just not on the physical card.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#217

Post by naravara »

nabaraz wrote: post #25

With the rise of smartphone payments like Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay , is there even a need for credit cards? How long until these companies start skipping payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and take the whole pie?

>With the rise of smartphone payments like Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay , is there even a need for credit cards?

If you ever travelled to Asia and don't wanted to install WeChat then yes, cards are good unless you're ok with going cash only.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#218

Post by cheeyoonlee »

jscholes wrote: post #208

> there’s no credit card number, CVV, expiration date, or signature, with all that authorization information stored directly in the Apple Wallet app. I understand the point is to increase Apple Pay usage, but how would I use this card with online websites which don't support Apple Pay?

The numbers can be found on the Apple Wallet app

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#219

Post by ajra »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #160
ajra wrote: post #131

It seems to me that Apple can offer reduced fees due to the fact that they'll have less fraud as a result of requiring touch/face ID for every purchase. While interesting, it doesn't come close to solving what I feel is the largest problem with cards in the US today -- interchange fees.

I know this is a MasterCard, but it'd be more interesting if they were able to take out the $0.35 transaction fee on every transaction. This is the bread and butter of every payment processor, and it's complete rent seeking, AND supposedly all the major processors are going to RAISE it at roughly the same time in the coming months. Eliminating the set transaction fee could open up so many potential businesses. But I'…

Sounds awfully cartel-like.

Unfortunately I agree with you regarding the lack of incentives Apple has. IIRC, the money for cash back rewards comes out of the interchange fee. How do you get consumers to adopt a card that's opaquely better for businesses and immediately worse for themselves?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#220

Post by throwawaysea »

Swizec wrote: post #179
throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

I agree we are already exposed to this problem. Visa and Mastercard already make judgments about whom to support and whom to disallow. This is dangerous, especially because they are willing to succumb to the Internet outrage machine and pressure from loud activist groups to make these decisions.

When a platform is large enough (or has to be inherently large due to network effects), we should ensure (through regulation perhaps) that they act neutrally and provide service to everyone except where the law explicitly disallows it. That is, they should behave as a "dumb pipe" and not curators.

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