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Apple announces Apple Card credit card

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Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#231

Post by zaphirplane »

eridius wrote: post #213
throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

I wonder how you can challenge a fraudulent transaction when that information is missing

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#232

Post by bilbo0s »

lemoncucumber wrote: post #227
bilbo0s wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken. You could also argue that having multiple big entities doing payment processing is better for everyone to the extent that they are competing. I mean, Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple. (And to take out Amazon and Walmart as well if they decide to jump into this thing.) So rather than wishing that Apple were NOT a payment processor, I guess a…

> Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple. The Apple card isn't competing with Mastercard and Visa -- in fact, it uses the Mastercard payment network. It's competing with credit cards issued by other banks on top of the MC and Visa payment networks (and AmEx/Discover, which unlike MC and Visa combine the payment network and card issuing). I doubt the other ban…

Then Visa will pull every lever at its disposal to take it out.

It's also disappointing though, because it means Apple is not competing as a separate entity. What we want is for Apple to jump in be an actual credit card company. Then for all of them to try to destroy each other. (Unfortunately, now that I think about it, there are probably legal reasons that Apple is restricted in this regard. That's a shame. Basically means that it's Mastercard and Visa forever.)

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#233

Post by sandworm101 »

eridius wrote: post #213
throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

Like de-listing vendors they do not like? CC processors can do that too, but they are nothing like the app store(s).

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#234

Post by icelancer »

bilbo0s wrote: post #196
Swizec wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

Point taken. You could also argue that having multiple big entities doing payment processing is better for everyone to the extent that they are competing. I mean, Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple. (And to take out Amazon and Walmart as well if they decide to jump into this thing.) So rather than wishing that Apple were NOT a payment processor, I guess a…

Yeah I mean, this is what cryptocurrency is supposed to help solve and does for people willing to jump through the hoops. Instead of waiting on corporate overlords to enter a ridiculously relegated and bureaucratic mess, we have the open source community actually moving forward with ideas (ones no one seems to like on HN because it's not as simple or convenient, not that Linux was easy to use when installing Slackware from a bunch of disks) and almost no one wants to embrace them, rather just shit on them here.

I'm fully aware this is an unpopular opinion here, but cryptocurrency is one answer to the conglomerates everyone is complaining about. Is it perfect, or even very good? No. But I use it regularly on major merchants and get stuff delivered without much hassle and pay for my VPSes without trouble.

People want an alternative that is as good as Visa/MC without the conglomerate control. That is not going to happen. You can't get 100% of the convenience of the major processors with 0% of the problems.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#235

Post by [deleted] »

SonicSoul wrote: post #149
hbosch wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy.com?

I think you have to give them your bank #. so i'd assume its bad for similar reasons a debit card is bad. but i'd like to hear more from people that used it. also i doubt you'd get any spending points.. which is kind of a big perk

[deleted]

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#236

Post by cinquemb »

jonlorusso wrote: post #113
cinquemb wrote: post #53

Cant sell enough phones, so gotta sell debt as well… brilliant… cant wait to see what innovation they come up with next!

tbf, they milked that phone gravy train for a good decade. the only new "features" left to talk about these days are the size and location of a "notch".

Very true, they did a good job. Time to go the way of ol' yeller now? I can only imagine the kind of derivatives GS is looking to write on this in the future…

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#237

Post by sk5t »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #222
gervase wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what the parent was saying. They would not consider a financial product that bypasses the major payment processors (Visa/MC) unless it has similar customer protections built in.

I'm confused. The Apple card is a MasterCard.

And the post at the head of this thread contemplates the utility of Visa/MC in general. Not really a concern leveled at Apple's thing in specific, and I wouldn't want my concern about consumer protections to be construed as such.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#238

Post by ddoolin »

ryandrake wrote: post #145
runako wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the Southeast of the US, the adoption of Apple Pay (and I presume Samsung Pay) has definitely been increasing. Square/Clover/all the POS's used by coffeeshops and other small businesses have been taking Apple Pay for a few years now. But recently CVS started taking it, and CVS is everywhere (~6,200 stores in the US). Whole Foods is on Apple Pay. I understand Target will be following soon. It's still not 100%…

You don’t just need technology penetration. You also neeed consistently working devices that inspire confidence to customers that they’ll work. How often have you done this dance: 1. Notice the POS reader has an icon on it that vaguely indicates it supports some kind of NFC payment. 2. Pull out your phone and wave it around the reader. 3. No response from reader. Do I need to press something on my phone? 4. Still no…

Anecdotally, this has never happened to me. I briefly mention I'm paying with Apple Pay almost always and if it's not available/doesn't work, they will let you know.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#239

Post by djsumdog »

throwawaysea wrote: post #220
Swizec wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

I agree we are already exposed to this problem. Visa and Mastercard already make judgments about whom to support and whom to disallow. This is dangerous, especially because they are willing to succumb to the Internet outrage machine and pressure from loud activist groups to make these decisions. When a platform is large enough (or has to be inherently large due to network effects), we should ensure (through regulatio…

They isn't any neutrality, at least in the US. We've watched Visa/Mastercard/Paypal and others take down people they politically disagree with. Look at Paypal + Patreon for another example.

What's currently in the pipes to help fix this? Sure you can always support someone by mailing them a money order or cryptocurrency, but that is a huge hindrance to most people. It can cripple groups that are political unpopular. 20 years ago, that might have been gay rights groups.

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