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Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

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Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#221

Post by Fellshard »

newnewpdro wrote: post #207
pmiller2 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect many of the tent and tarp folks are doing it because there’s no better alternative. If cities would just build simple housing with proper sanitation (tiny houses, SROs, whatever) to get those people off the street, I’m sure that would take care of a majority of the public sanitation issues. Once you get someone into a home, it is vastly easier to help them stabilize their other issues (mental health and dru…

> If cities would just build simple housing with proper sanitation (tiny houses, SROs, whatever) to get those people off the street I don't think it's that simple. This isn't a fixed constant set of people living on the street that you find homes for and that's the end of the problem. It's more of a revolving door; there's a constant supply replacing whoever gets off the street. I think what the article mentioned abo…

Except there is no infrastructure beyond what can be accessed via a cell phone - these are strewn along highways or streets, or beneath overpasses, unless there are some that really are more formalized than I've seen yet.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#222

Post by closeparen »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #61
closeparen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Information, professional, and business services collectively account for less than 25% of Bay Area workers. At least 75% of the people currently affording lives here are not in tech. There’s a big difference in what happens in the housing units that are up for grabs vs. the city as a whole. http://www.vitalsigns.mtc.ca.gov/jobs-industry

From your link: the fastest growing industries are information, professional, and business services. And it is the growing industries that drive the market rate for housing. Someone who bought in to the market via purchase or rent-regulated lease five or ten years ago has a significantly lower cost of living than someone entering the market today. Exempli gratia: (in California) If you're living in a $2 million house…

What happens on the margins is not the same as what happens. You do not need a tech job to live here. Instead you need to have established or inherited a claim on land, sometime in the past.

If this is to become the norm, it's a monumental shift in the fabric of American society. Meritocracy/justice/feudalism arguments notwithstanding, the implications are huge. Parenting strategy changes. Not even the very best wages are going to cover your child's cost of living near a decent job at market rate. Setting her up to be a valuable worker is a poor investment.

Instead of researching school districts, research cities and economic trends. Instead of saving for college, buy property in the cities you think will be employment centers in 18 years (and keep it empty to avoid a potential tenant-rights battle). Instead of living in the best school district, live in a rent-controlled apartment in another favored city, maybe the one where you can least afford ownership today. If your family can't afford this alone, go in with another family or two. Choose wisely. Your kids will be roommates for life.

If one of your bets is correct, then your kid gets a decent life. It doesn't matter that she's less educated; a worker's most important qualification is to be there. Whatever the growth industry is will be elated to find any young adult. And she'll have 100x better living arrangements, at 1% of the cost, compared to any sucker whose parents didn't set this up for them like you did.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#223

Post by kakarot »

robocat wrote: post #200
kakarot wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have much sympathy for anyone who chooses to work in the arts... One must see the risks taken, and that the rewards are unpredictable. You have different goals in life than other people. Please try to be aware that the path you've chosen is not the only right one. Some people have different goals. Some people even have the cognitive ability to regard the goal of fulfillment in life and creativity as more im…

> Please try to be aware that the path you've chosen is not the only right one. Some people have different goals....[snip] I am old enough to have family, friends and acquantances from plenty of different ages and wage brackets: minimum wage hospo, the retired poor, sickness beneficiaries, young and unemployed by choice, successful land-banked hippies, successful founders, successful artists etc. I support my friends…

Your entire premise of lacking sympathy for an oversimplified group of people that only exists in your head was a bit condescending.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#224

Post by diogenescynic »

newnewpdro wrote: post #158
diogenescynic wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about criminalizing poverty. It's about trespassing and having campers at your house 24/7/365 who are criminals. It's an awful drain to your quality of life. Stop demonizing people for not thinking it's "progressive" to let people crap on the streets and shoot up in public. I voted for Bernie, but I live in SF and I see how much money we waste by not addressing the problem directly and in more common sense w…

San Francisco is neglecting to enforce existing laws regularly broken in the open by folks largely overlapping with the homeless population. I've mentioned this before on this forum. At one point when I worked in the mission we watched daily a homeless encampment operate a bicycle chop shop in broad daylight from our second-floor lunch room. The police did absolutely nothing until it had been operating for well over…

Oh I see the chop shops too. There’s one guy downtown with one of those huge flat shopping carts from Costco that has an electric angle grinder. He has literally cut the locks off dozens of bikes on Market street and the cops do absolutely nothing. It’s surreal. No other city this rich is living in conditions like this. Something is broken in our society that is allowing this level of apathy. No one bats an eye at most of this stuff anymore, but it’s absolutely not something I am willing to tolerate as “normal” and that we can’t do better...

The police don’t enforce the law because there’s no point and the chief of police tell them no to unless they are a risk to others or themselves. Then there’s no penalty to not pay the fines and even if they don’t show up to court they never get jail time, DAs rarely prosecute (unless violence occurs), juries rarely convict, and even when they do the judges here make it so the consequences are meaningless. I really don’t think it’s the cops who are the problem. Their hands are tied by the incompetent politicians we send to City Hall. Although I really don’t understand why cops don’t walk a beat or do any kind of foot patrols in the worst areas... there’s no excuse for that.

I agree, we need to enforce the law. I’d even go so far as paying another jail in a cheaper area to hold all of the criminals so that they aren’t here where it’s prhobitively expensive. Good luck finding a city that would want to deal with our criminals though.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#225

Post by [deleted] »

robocat wrote: post #119
closeparen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich got by for thousands of years without cooking, doing laundry, or running affordable housing programs. The service sector lived on its customers’ estates, often as part of their households. I expect this is where we’re headed. Several people I know who work on poverty wages in the arts industry here pay their room and board in elder- or child-care for a homeowner. We often hear that terms like “feudalism” and…

> Several people I know who work on poverty wages in the arts industry I don't have much sympathy for anyone who chooses to work in the arts... One must see the risks taken, and that the rewards are unpredictable. > elder- or child-care for a homeowner Are you talking about the very wealthy here? The upper income? The middle or even low income earners that made good financial choices? Looking after children and elder…

[deleted]

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#226

Post by Simon_says »

projektir wrote: post #213
Simon_says wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: this is what an emergency fund is for, no? You can earn the same income and spend the same dollar amount over your life, but if you build up a buffer of 6 month's expenses, you are no longer chronically broke. This is what I was taught at an early age. Why is this advice not more commonly followed? It's not about being rich or poor or having a high or low income. The advice is truly agnostic to thos…

The average emergency fund can be wiped out quickly by a bad bout of illness.

It should go without saying that your emergency fund should exceed the deductible on your insurance. I know there are multi-year illnesses, or illnesses that cause one to become unable to work and keep health insurance, but those situations are exceedingly rare. Being broke, on the other hand, is exceedingly common.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#227

Post by dang »

Animats wrote: post #215
dang wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes. You're a great HN contributor but please don't do this here.

It's harsh, but may not be wrong. One day I was eating at the Burger King near the cable car turntable in SF, and listening to a group of homeless people. They were printers. Or used to be. That was a good-paying skilled trade for several hundred years. Now it's dead. Typesetting is automated, modern presses take very few people to run, and short-run jobs run at FedEx Office, not a printing plant.

That's already a more informative and substantive comment than the first one.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#228

Post by closeparen »

oneplane wrote: post #206
cokelee wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why that would keep you away. By your definition a huge percentage of the population is successful.

As far as I know, most people are not successful by his definition. Almost everyone who is not rich is living paycheck-to-paycheck. There is no baseline system where working 40 to 60 hours a week guarantees a normal home/living/health situation.

People live paycheck-to-paycheck on a surprisingly wide range of incomes.

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#229

Post by MarvelousWololo »

f34 wrote: post #176
throwaway713 wrote: post #116

A little bit unrelated, but does anyone else get severe anxiety reading articles like this? I’m currently employed in a well-paying tech job, but it always seems like I’m just one giant disaster away from this kind of thing. Granted, I have a family “safety net” to fall back on in a worst case scenario, which I realize a lot of people don’t have, but it’s always in the back of my mind that the economy could crash, th…

I was wiped out back in 2017. I was a web developer living in Dallas and making 90K a year. My manager and I didn't get along and I eventually ended up on a PIP. After 30 days I realized I wasn't going to meet the PIP goals and resigned before being fired. I wasn't worried, I had about 50K in cash and 20K in credit, and I surly could find a job before it ran out. I was wrong. I got very few interviews and when I did,…

Jesus. I almost had a panic attack reading your story mate. I'm so sorry I hope your life turn better soon. Where did you go to college if you don't mind me asking?

Re: Homeless, living in a tent and employed: The changing face of homelessness

#230

Post by [deleted] »

f34 wrote: post #176
throwaway713 wrote: post #116

A little bit unrelated, but does anyone else get severe anxiety reading articles like this? I’m currently employed in a well-paying tech job, but it always seems like I’m just one giant disaster away from this kind of thing. Granted, I have a family “safety net” to fall back on in a worst case scenario, which I realize a lot of people don’t have, but it’s always in the back of my mind that the economy could crash, th…

I was wiped out back in 2017. I was a web developer living in Dallas and making 90K a year. My manager and I didn't get along and I eventually ended up on a PIP. After 30 days I realized I wasn't going to meet the PIP goals and resigned before being fired. I wasn't worried, I had about 50K in cash and 20K in credit, and I surly could find a job before it ran out. I was wrong. I got very few interviews and when I did,…

[deleted]
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