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ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

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Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#191

Post by DuskStar »

Throwway32 wrote: post #178
DuskStar wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike it, so it's hate speech, of course! But I tend to believe that I should not have the power to determine what can or cannot be said, and that no one else should have that power either .

If you were to say, make a pro-ISIS video, or Tweet, would you expect to remain unmolested by the authorities in the United States? All societies set boundaries on what is acceptable speech.

I would expect making a pro-ISIS video/tweet to leave me without additional molestation from the government, yes. Probably wouldn't stay up on YouTube, but other sites don't seem to have a problem with such things. (stereotypically, that would be LiveLeak)

You can check out the list of exceptions to free speech in the US here [0]. I disagree with a number of them, but an "ISIS is awesome and this is why" video would fall under none of them. (the same goes for a "Hitler was awesome" video, a "Trump is awesome" video, or a "Trump is a fascist and we need to rise up in violent rebellion" video)

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#192

Post by doubleunplussed »

roca wrote: post #175
doubleunplussed wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think blocking 4chan and 8chan means their users will resent the establishment even more. Considering this is the demographic whose resentment was influential enough to play a role in the election of Trump in the US, I think society needs to think twice before stamping the boot into their face. I know some people who will feel that blocking these sites was an affront to their identity. And like it or not, the numbe…

No, those people very much need a boot stamped into their face (metaphorically). The vast majority are cowards who hide behind anonymity or in their sick community. Catch a few and make an example of them and the vast majority will back off. I'm talking about NZ here, I understand the situation in the USA is different and worse. In fact, though, they won't be cut off. 4chan and 8chan are both accessible to me here in…

I think it's DNS blocking with the ISP-provided DNS servers. Perhaps you're using google public DNS already?

In Australia I believe it was blocking at the IP address level, so requires a VPN to circumvent. But only for some ISPs.

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#193

Post by Taniwha »

spondyl wrote: post #61

While not an official statement, this forum post from a Spark employee is worth a read: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=24... --- I am NOT officially empowered to talk about this but I want to shut down any conjecture right now. No actions of Spark taken now or over the next 24 hours or so should be considered representative of policy. They may turn out to be temporary, they may even with hi…

Of course a US ISP could do this too, completely legally - the 1st amendment only binds the government - and the Trump administration's removal of net neutrality gives ISPs carte-blanche to do whatever they like in this area

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#194

Post by sintaxi »

doesnt_know wrote: post #12

Not everyone holds the same absolute views on freedom of speech as those drawn up in the American constitution. There is also plenty of opposing views of a "constitutionally limited government" that seems to be at the heart of American culture. Frankly, it's pretty disturbing how many Americans are unable to comprehend that their way isn't the "only way" that can be valid. The New Zealand Bill of Rights provides free…

The American Constitution is the longest standing implemented constitutional document in the world. Clearly they have done something right. The American Constitution isn't optimized for perfect social harmony. Its designed to work and stand the test of time. The New Zealand constitution is only 33 years old - which is peanuts. If it doesn't stand the test of time then your opinion really doesn't hold water does it?

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#195

Post by Taniwha »

incompatible wrote: post #27
sebthedev wrote: post #18

Those websites were distributing material that was illegal under New Zealand law (content relating to the recent terrorist attack). Any person in New Zealand who possesses objectionable content is liable for imprisonment for up to 10 years. Distributing the objectionable content can result in imprisonment for up to 14 years. The ISPs were simply declining to distribute or possess the objectionable content (which woul…

Do ISPs in NZ have no safe habour provisions? If one of their customers downloads or uploads something illegal, the ISP can be prosecuted too?

I don't believe so in this case, in NZ these laws were written with film in mind - more generally the safe-harbour laws are largely written for copyright issues on behalf of the content people

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#196

Post by hackerman12345 »

beachy wrote: post #190
hackerman12345 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Guns are too dangerous, give them to us or we'll shoot you and take them from your cold, dead hands" might be a little bit totalitarian.

Attitudes are different in NZ from the US. There is no right to bear arms, and self defense is not a valid reason to hold a firearm licence. An overwhelming majority of people believe that military style weapons have no place in society, and that those guns - though not all guns - are too dangerous, and that accordingly yes, you must hand them over.

Even if an overwhelming majority of people believe state shootings (with guns) of people who won't hand them over is moral and ok in society.. the point of my reply still stands and has nothing to do with the right to self-defense etc.

There are plenty of times in history when overwhelming majorities beliefs took away minority rights.

When reading the wrong words can get you 10 years in prison, it probably does trend towards Orwell's future though.

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#197

Post by Taniwha »

DuskStar wrote: post #73
baconhigh wrote: post #69

All the sites in the article were hosting illegal (in NZ) content - they were temporarily blocked till the video (of a terrorist killing innocent people) was taken down. Nobody needs to see that. It's not about free speech. The sites in question are used to spread hate, racism, violence and bigotry. Why are we tolerating this kind of media in our lives? Why are we letting people upload this? It is not free speech. It…

Hate speech is free speech that you happen to not like.

This is not hate speech, this is a snuff film

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#198

Post by Throwway32 »

sintaxi wrote: post #194
doesnt_know wrote: post #12

Not everyone holds the same absolute views on freedom of speech as those drawn up in the American constitution. There is also plenty of opposing views of a "constitutionally limited government" that seems to be at the heart of American culture. Frankly, it's pretty disturbing how many Americans are unable to comprehend that their way isn't the "only way" that can be valid. The New Zealand Bill of Rights provides free…

The American Constitution is the longest standing implemented constitutional document in the world. Clearly they have done something right. The American Constitution isn't optimized for perfect social harmony. Its designed to work and stand the test of time. The New Zealand constitution is only 33 years old - which is peanuts. If it doesn't stand the test of time then your opinion really doesn't hold water does it?

The American Constitution is the longest standing implemented constitutional document in the world. Clearly they have done something right. The American Constitution isn't optimized for perfect social harmony. Its designed to work and stand the test of time. The New Zealand constitution is only 33 years old - which is peanuts. If it doesn't stand the test of time then your opinion really doesn't hold water does it?

Brandenberg v Ohio dates back to 1969. That was only 50 years ago.

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#199

Post by DuskStar »

Taniwha wrote: post #197
DuskStar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech is free speech that you happen to not like.

This is not hate speech, this is a snuff film

That's fair. Of course, I haven't heard many "censor the internet" calls in regards to 3guys1hammer, though that may just be because of the age. (3guys1hammer was the first that came to mind, though the quantity of ISIS and Cartel execution videos is also rather high)

Re: ISPs in AU and NZ start censoring the internet without legal precedent

#200

Post by NemosDemos »

berti wrote: post #88

I just checked, and only three of the thirteen "blocked" sites are not working. Of those eztv.is appears to have a DNS problem (no A record, only an SOA record pointing at a parking address of the registrar), and traceroutes archive.is and archive.fo get as far as an address in the Netherlands, so I don't think they're blocked in NZ. ISP is 2degrees, Cloudflare DNS. On a side-note, I'm probably now on some watch list…

What I'm finding somewhat interesting is that Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) appears to be sinkholing that DNS request for me (I'm currently inside Australia - 127.0.0.3 is being returned) whereas Google (8.8.8.8) does not (51.38.113.224 returned). Doesn't look like it's just me either - ViewDNS [1] is currently showing 'www.archive.is' returning 127.0.0.3 from Sydney.

[1]https://viewdns.info/propagation/?domain=www.archive.is

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