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Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

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Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#51

Post by rchaud »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #47

I emailed Richard, the author of this article, with the question: "What Robotics projects is Google helping the Chinese govt develop or leaking through a CCP cell?" I am very curious, as I think the HN community would be. I do not want to rehash the other arguments: if it is true Google would be hypocritical for assisting China or the lack of details what this General accused Google on possibly leaking through a CCP…

Wouldn't your question be more appropriate for the Joint Chiefs Chairman who actually said the quote? The article writer is reporting what was said at an event. It wasn't an interview or Q&A where questions like that could have been asked.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#52

Post by _ptgt »

bduerst wrote: post #40
president wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are refusing to work with the U.S. military yet cooperating with China to help advance their AI technology. In some sense, this could be seen as leaving your own in the dust while helping "others".

Google refused to work on the machine vision for U.S. military drones that kill thousands of people (project maven). [1] Google's work in China is building an AI center to promote AI in general. [2] These are not the same things. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_arms_r... [2] http://fortune.com/2017/12/13/google-china-artificial-intell...

Is Google's AI work in China public though? If that's not the case, I see Dunford's point.

The DoD does not have a unit in Deepmind ensuring all of their findings are evaluated for potential military usage as far as I know. Whereas that's certainly going to happening in any Google AI lab on China.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#54

Post by PaulHoule »

paleotrope wrote: post #36
ehsankia wrote: post #20

This article seems like a lot of speculating and throwing wild theories at the wall. It a big eye-catching headline with very little substance. I understand how Google's unwillingness to participate in DoD programs can impact the US military, but I don't understand the Google/China connection. Does anyone know what the "artificial intelligence venture" is referring to? Is it Dragonfly? I don't see how an exploratory…

My guess is the DoD/USGov is going to be opposed to any transfer of any ai/ml technology to China. I tend to think that most ai/ml news is hyped and highly speculative, but if the leadership in the US is not sophisticated enough to understand the hype cycle, any ai technology that could be put in a military drone is going to be heavily regulated.

Understanding of the hype cycle or not, the trouble is that our government is looking less legitimate by the day because it does not recognize and respond to threats such as climate change and a shift away from democracy that's been funded by our own corporations.

Yes, when you invest in China you are investing in communism. You might think you are getting a fast one because workers have no human rights, but try taking your money out and you will see what they think of property rights.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#56

Post by trkh0 »

Ancalagon wrote: post #2

If ever there were a reason to get politicians on the side of breaking up Google (or any other tech company), I imagine this would be it.

Breaking up "Google (or any other tech company)" is not a reasonable solution to any actual problem, I don't understand how people can casually suggest that.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#57

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

PaulHoule wrote: post #54
paleotrope wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is the DoD/USGov is going to be opposed to any transfer of any ai/ml technology to China. I tend to think that most ai/ml news is hyped and highly speculative, but if the leadership in the US is not sophisticated enough to understand the hype cycle, any ai technology that could be put in a military drone is going to be heavily regulated.

Understanding of the hype cycle or not, the trouble is that our government is looking less legitimate by the day because it does not recognize and respond to threats such as climate change and a shift away from democracy that's been funded by our own corporations. Yes, when you invest in China you are investing in communism. You might think you are getting a fast one because workers have no human rights, but try taki…

>Understanding of the hype cycle or not, the trouble is that our government is looking less legitimate by the day because it does not recognize and respond to threats such as climate change

The government doesn’t recognize and respond to climate change because the voters don’t recognize and respond to climate change. I would guess on a market cap weighted basis, most corporations are in favor of climate change legislation, there is not overwhelming popular support for it.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#58

Post by csdreamer7 »

rchaud wrote: post #51
csdreamer7 wrote: post #47

I emailed Richard, the author of this article, with the question: "What Robotics projects is Google helping the Chinese govt develop or leaking through a CCP cell?" I am very curious, as I think the HN community would be. I do not want to rehash the other arguments: if it is true Google would be hypocritical for assisting China or the lack of details what this General accused Google on possibly leaking through a CCP…

Wouldn't your question be more appropriate for the Joint Chiefs Chairman who actually said the quote? The article writer is reporting what was said at an event. It wasn't an interview or Q&A where questions like that could have been asked.

That is why I am asking the reporter who reported his words. So he can ask the question to the general or to the Congressional reps that grill the general. He posted his email, so I asked him.

Reporters have privileged access to executive branch and interact with Congress all the time. They help filter out the noise and get to substance of matters.

Also, getting the media more involved in technical matters and getting them to ask more detailed questions from HN's discussion would benefit us all as a country (at least for us Americans and our allies).

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#59

Post by partiallypro »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #47

I emailed Richard, the author of this article, with the question: "What Robotics projects is Google helping the Chinese govt develop or leaking through a CCP cell?" I am very curious, as I think the HN community would be. I do not want to rehash the other arguments: if it is true Google would be hypocritical for assisting China or the lack of details what this General accused Google on possibly leaking through a CCP…

I think one general issue is that Google has an AI center in China, and I'm sure there is 0 doubt from the intelligence community that the information Google's employees there have access to, etc is being infiltrated by Chinese spies. Not to mention just general projects Google is involved in within China itself, and its willingness to pay a price for entry (which is Chinese custom for foreign companies.) So, Google is being a bit of a "useful idiot" in their aiding of the Chinese government, and I believe prior quotes from the Pentagon are saying their aid is "indirect."

People can say it's "not the same" because it's just an AI center, instead of a direct military application. But...that's not really how AI is applied, the AI from the AI center within China can be used for military purposes. And given that it is a black box that the US is not directly involved in (unlike China,) the general premise of Google's aiding of China seems pretty apparent.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#60

Post by moosey »

The sunset comes for US hegemony for the same reason that China will not succeed long term, or even medium term, for that matter: Decision making that is oppositional to what technocracy would demand. I think that it's fine to take culture into decision making most of the time, but when your process turns a full 180 from what observation suggests is the proper course of action, you will run into long term issues socially, economically, and militarily, and both of these nations are going to run head long into those.

What I fear is the damage that they will cause in the run up to these failures.

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