Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#31

Post by jsnider3 » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

darkpuma wrote: post #6

Ancalagon wrote: post #2

If ever there were a reason to get politicians on the side of breaking up Google (or any other tech company), I imagine this would be it.

That's optimistic. It could just as well be seen as another excuse to throw even more money at the defense industry. "Google works with China now, so we need to triple the size of our surface fleet." Now ask yourself, which one seems more attractive to a cynical US politician who wants to bring in more jobs for his state? Does a senator from Texas or New York advocate for splitting up Google because it will open the…

Honestly, the DoD should just take a dozen of its few hundred billions and spend them on making an AI workforce. That would be a hundred times better for national security than wasting it on garbage like the F-35.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#32

Post by pdimitar » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #24

jorblumesea wrote: post #15

I think it's ironic that partnerships with the Pentagon get axed, but projects with an authoritarian state go forward. Seems like a double standard.

Which project with authoritarian state went forward? https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/google-china-censored-se...

There was an article lately here at HN showing that there is a high probability the project didn't end. It just became secretive.

Not sure what I believe personally but if there are big money involved then I'd lean to believe that Google made a PR stunt (which your article advertises) and just got employees who can keep quiet to work on Dragonfly.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#33

Post by president » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

FourierTformed wrote: post #17

What military advantage does Google give the U.S. government?

They are refusing to work with the U.S. military yet cooperating with China to help advance their AI technology. In some sense, this could be seen as leaving your own in the dust while helping "others".

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#34

Post by bduerst » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

president wrote: post #14

Well, when you have a company for which a large majority of its employees are from countries outside of the U.S., some of which are extremely nationalist and hold anti-American views, you will end up having some decisions made that are anti-American. EDIT: To the down-voters, I don't think you are understanding my post. I have worked with plenty of people who would love to see the downfall of the U.S. Many of the the…

Stop with this xenophobia. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrant families [1]

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2011/06/19/40-pe...

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#35

Post by jrbuhl » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

KirinDave wrote: post #11

One can't help but wonder if this line of thinking is in some part a consequence of Google's decision to put US government contracts on hold due to ethical concerns from its workers.

It is directly related. https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1106247367177764865

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#36

Post by paleotrope » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:36 PM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #20

This article seems like a lot of speculating and throwing wild theories at the wall. It a big eye-catching headline with very little substance. I understand how Google's unwillingness to participate in DoD programs can impact the US military, but I don't understand the Google/China connection. Does anyone know what the "artificial intelligence venture" is referring to? Is it Dragonfly? I don't see how an exploratory…

My guess is the DoD/USGov is going to be opposed to any transfer of any ai/ml technology to China. I tend to think that most ai/ml news is hyped and highly speculative, but if the leadership in the US is not sophisticated enough to understand the hype cycle, any ai technology that could be put in a military drone is going to be heavily regulated.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#37

Post by bduerst » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:36 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #7

It's amazing what companies will put up with if China only hints at giving them "access to the Chinese market". https://9to5google.com/2019/03/21/nokia-7-plus-sending-data-... https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/nokia-at-risk-of-chin...

Apple included: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/04/apple-...

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#38

Post by Leary » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

ehsankia wrote: post #20

This article seems like a lot of speculating and throwing wild theories at the wall. It a big eye-catching headline with very little substance. I understand how Google's unwillingness to participate in DoD programs can impact the US military, but I don't understand the Google/China connection. Does anyone know what the "artificial intelligence venture" is referring to? Is it Dragonfly? I don't see how an exploratory…

Google also has an AI research center based in Beijing that hires Chinese employees.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/12/google-opening-an-office-f...

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#39

Post by president » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #34

president wrote: post #14

Well, when you have a company for which a large majority of its employees are from countries outside of the U.S., some of which are extremely nationalist and hold anti-American views, you will end up having some decisions made that are anti-American. EDIT: To the down-voters, I don't think you are understanding my post. I have worked with plenty of people who would love to see the downfall of the U.S. Many of the the…

Stop with this xenophobia. 40% of the Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrant families [1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2011/06/19/40-pe...

What exactly is xenophobic about my post? I'm not exactly saying "get out of the country" if you carefully read my post.

Re: Google's Work with China Eroding US Military Advantage, Dunford Says

#40

Post by bduerst » Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

president wrote: post #33

FourierTformed wrote: post #17

What military advantage does Google give the U.S. government?

They are refusing to work with the U.S. military yet cooperating with China to help advance their AI technology. In some sense, this could be seen as leaving your own in the dust while helping "others".

Google refused to work on the machine vision for U.S. military drones that kill thousands of people (project maven). [1] Google's work in China is building an AI center to promote AI in general. [2]

These are not the same things.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence_arms_r...

[2] http://fortune.com/2017/12/13/google-china-artificial-intell...