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Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

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Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#191

Post by IdiocyInAction »

golem14 wrote: post #21
IdiocyInAction wrote: post #7

As an EU citizen, I hope large portions of the internet will just block us. A couple of days without YouTube, Wikipedia and other services would create sufficient outrage to put pressure on the EU for introducing these idiotic laws. I mean, GDPR is bad enough for start ups, but Article 13?

my 2 cents: A few days of outrage will do absolutely nothing to stop or change the law. AFAICT, many the EU bureaucrats and politicians fervently believe that they are doing the right thing here, even if it's clearly bonkers. It's like Brexit that way. Also: as said elsewhere, article 13 is probably all good news for YouTube, so I doubt that they do anything deeply confrontational. Plus, even if they did, they would…

Well, there's an EU election soon, blocking for a couple of weeks before that would probably suffice to change a few minds.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#192

Post by est31 »

TomMarius wrote: post #188
est31 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apportionment_in_the_European_... In the countries with 10 million population, you have roughly 500k people per MEP. In Germany & France, it's 850k. If you add up the seats of the 6 countries with roughly 10 million people, you get 126. If you add up the seats of Germany and France, you get 175. So the small countries are definitely not irrelevant. Can a single country decide on a matter…

This is fair representation in matters that an economical union should decide, but it is not fair representation when the EU became a political union - almost no German lives in the country and yet German citizens have more control over it than Czech citizens do. The EU does not need to regulate everything, or even most things. The Czech Republic tries to promote distributed multi-level government (so only people liv…

The copryight directive is about unifying copyright law and rules in the EU. It's about making it easier to offer services to all EU citizens. If the EU doesn't regulate some area, naturally countries will have different rules, making inner EU trade in that matter difficult.

The countries of the EU, including Germany, can't survive on their own in a world where there's the USA, China and India. We need a strong entity that protects european values world-wide.

Also, this isn't a new thing either. Think of Charles IV. a czech ruler of the HRE which included both today's Germany and today's Czech republic.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#193

Post by MR4D »

MR4D wrote: post #29

I think this is great, but I think it would be funnier to just replace all the words with Klingon. That way, things would look like they work, but upon closer inspection, not actually work. The effect would be frustration, and could be made worse if done for a random amount of time.

Whoever voted me down on this should understand the regulation and why my response was stated as it was. ( for reference, a good critique of the law is here [0]. )

My main issue is that the offenders are basically no longer really in trouble, but the networks (google, FB, reddit, et al) now are. (yes, that's a simplification, but bear with me).

This is akin to punishing the telephone company whenever someone makes a call on their network as part of a crime.

So, at first glance, everything is normal, until it isn't. Hence my comment about replacing the text on a page with Klingon instead - it looks fine, right up until it doesn't. This mirrors the effect of the law - something looks fine, right up until it's determined to be illegal, and then you are f'ed.

So if you disagree with me, then fine, but at least understand why my comment is there - it is supposed to be insidious, because the law is insidious.

[0] - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/final-version-eus-copy...

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#194

Post by MR4D »

avar wrote: post #147
koonsolo wrote: post #104

Here are part of the lyrics of "Enter Sandman" of Metallica: Exit light Enter night Take my hand We're off to Never—, Neverland Now I lay me down to sleep Pray the Lord my soul to keep If I die before I wake Pray the Lord my soul to take YCombinator is now in violation of article 13. Some filter should have prevented me from posting this. That is what article 13 is about.

Article 13 is bad enough without needing to make up absurd interpretations of it. EU law is enforced on the basis of proportionality, and the wording of the proposed directive already covers that. There's never going to be some legal obligation to remove something like the quote you just posted. Furthermore, since it's a directive each member state will need to implement it in a way that's compatible with both the di…

Ok, I have to be missing something here....

According to your statement:

    Furthermore, since it's a directive each member state will need to implement it in a way that's compatible with both the directive and its own laws. The countries in the EU all have some sort of concept that's analogous to "fair use", even if that's not what they call it.
(which I'll take at face value as true), we have not just one directive, but 28 separate interpretations and enforcements of it because of the number of countries and their respective fair use language?

That's actually even worse!

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#195

Post by porsager »

testuser2131 wrote: post #126
porsager wrote: post #105

For anyone in Denmark, here are contact details for the MEPs: - Margrete Auken - +4561625450 - margrete.auken@europarl.europa.eu - https://twitter.com/MargreteAuken - Bendt Bendtsen - bb@bendt.dk - https://twitter.com/BendtEU - Ole Christensen - +4522200830 - ole.christensen@europarl.europa.eu - https://twitter.com/oleeu - Jørn Dohrmann - +4561623349 - jorn.dohrmann@europarl.europa.eu - https://twitter.com/mepdohrman…

I was not able to find these phone numbers online, where did you get them from?

They were all found on their parties website.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#196

Post by porsager »

bemmu wrote: post #151
porsager wrote: post #105

For anyone in Denmark, here are contact details for the MEPs: - Margrete Auken - +4561625450 - margrete.auken@europarl.europa.eu - https://twitter.com/MargreteAuken - Bendt Bendtsen - bb@bendt.dk - https://twitter.com/BendtEU - Ole Christensen - +4522200830 - ole.christensen@europarl.europa.eu - https://twitter.com/oleeu - Jørn Dohrmann - +4561623349 - jorn.dohrmann@europarl.europa.eu - https://twitter.com/mepdohrman…

What specifically should one ask them to vote against? I'm sure they have a lot on their plate, so what's a good way to make it easy for them to understand which vote this is about?

The new EU copyright directive. Specifically article 11 (link tax) and article 13 (upload filter).

This site explains it well i think: https://juliareda.eu/2019/02/eu-copyright-final-text/

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#197

Post by avar »

MR4D wrote: post #194
avar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 13 is bad enough without needing to make up absurd interpretations of it. EU law is enforced on the basis of proportionality, and the wording of the proposed directive already covers that. There's never going to be some legal obligation to remove something like the quote you just posted. Furthermore, since it's a directive each member state will need to implement it in a way that's compatible with both the di…

Ok, I have to be missing something here.... According to your statement: Furthermore, since it's a directive each member state will need to implement it in a way that's compatible with both the directive and its own laws. The countries in the EU all have some sort of concept that's analogous to "fair use", even if that's not what they call it. (which I'll take at face value as true), we have not just one directive, b…

Yes. That's how it works. See [1] and [2]. Although by the time it'll be enacted it'll likely be 27 interpretations.

It's not worse, just different. The EU has a history of experimenting with directives that later become core EU regulations. E.g. the GDPR existed in one form or another for the last 20 years as privacy and data processing rules the EU directed EU/EEA members to implement.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union)

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#198

Post by MR4D »

avar wrote: post #197
MR4D wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I have to be missing something here.... According to your statement: Furthermore, since it's a directive each member state will need to implement it in a way that's compatible with both the directive and its own laws. The countries in the EU all have some sort of concept that's analogous to "fair use", even if that's not what they call it. (which I'll take at face value as true), we have not just one directive, b…

Yes. That's how it works. See [1] and [2]. Although by the time it'll be enacted it'll likely be 27 interpretations. It's not worse, just different. The EU has a history of experimenting with directives that later become core EU regulations. E.g. the GDPR existed in one form or another for the last 20 years as privacy and data processing rules the EU directed EU/EEA members to implement. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

Thanks for the links.

I do think it is worse because rather than 27 laws (one for each jurisdiction), you have 1 law with 27 interpretations, and unclear jurisdiction.

For instance, What might be treated as fair use in one jurisdiction could be treated as criminal in another.

In the US, while we may have different state laws, copyright and speech are managed at the Federal level, so there is only one hierarchy to navigate. This resolves the jurisdiction issue. I'm not sure the EU has that same capability in this situation. If so, then wouldn't the fair use situation quickly become harmonized?

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#199

Post by lostmyoldone »

Sujan wrote: post #167

Shame that the CTA of e.g. the German Wikipedia is so weak: "Kontaktieren sie ihre Abgeordneten " (translted: contact your representative) which links to https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/de/home . Besides the site being super slow right now, I couldn't even figure out how to actually find _my_ representative. Is my representative the one of the city where I live? How can I search by city? Is this even by city? Doe…

Julia Reda usually posts the good links, so go to her site and have a look around!

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#200

Post by makomk »

hnra wrote: post #106
TomMarius wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's democratic at all. In case of my small country, almost literally no one wants this law - but that doesn't matter, we're a small country. The whole thing feels terribly wrong - 10 million people, the 100% majority of this rather big geographical location that is even separated by mountains on all sides, are just overruled, while they don't even understand the language these politicians are talking i…

Obviously a political and economic union will impose laws on its member states. Your country, holding 2% of the votes, being able to overrule the entire union wouldn't be very democratic either. It sounds like you want to have the cake and eat it too. Get the benefits of the union but be able to refuse the laws it imposes. If the EU decides on a law, that the majority of the union agrees on but your country doesn't,…

Do they really have the option to leave, though? I mean, have you seen how much success Britain has had trying to leave the EU?
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