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Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

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Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#71

Post by bryanrasmussen »

BurningFrog wrote: post #38
eikxyz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR was never intended to be "good for startups". Just like pro-climate policies are never intended to be good for the economy. GDPR was intended to be good for peoples privacy. Pro-climate policies are meant to be good for the climate. Somethings gotta give. People are generally more important than startups. Climate is generally more important than economy. Because without people, there are no startups. And without…

You're contradicting yourself. > pro-climate policies are never intended to be good for the economy > without climate, there is no economy, people, or startups

That some benefits will naturally occur as a side effect of a policy does not actually change the intention of that policy.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#72

Post by Tarean »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #67
_nalply wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option. Do you have a source for that?

Well since you can't make sharing of personal data a prerequisite for using a service unless it can be shown that data is actually necessary for the operation of the service it could be argued that this follows.

A service could offer an ad-free version for a fee.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#73

Post by [deleted] »

krageon wrote: post #62
LoSboccacc wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your startup can't comply with that most startups can and will. but it basically adds up the requirement of lawyering up to every startup that wants to operate here de facto annihilating the possibility for single man operations to bootstrap an idea cashless.

It doesn't do that, because you don't need to toe the line.

[deleted]

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#74

Post by avereveard »

krageon wrote: post #62
LoSboccacc wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your startup can't comply with that most startups can and will. but it basically adds up the requirement of lawyering up to every startup that wants to operate here de facto annihilating the possibility for single man operations to bootstrap an idea cashless.

It doesn't do that, because you don't need to toe the line.

there's no avoiding gdpr. how do you do presales without? it's not just about the trackers. every information is impacted from prospect contacts book to hiring, all that information requires consent and a public policy and a dpo.

and someone has to write that policy and someone has to be your dpo. and that's operating costs that a garage level startup will not be able to sustain.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#75

Post by TomMarius »

est31 wrote: post #6

The big websites participating in the blackout like Wikipedia or some porn sites do have vast access to eyeballs across europe, and would be affected directly and adversely by the new rules. As the lobbying fight has already been mostly won by the local publisher industry, they use their access to those eyeballs to fuel democratic protests of the rule. I hope they win and that Article 11 and 13 will be removed. I thi…

I don't think it's democratic at all. In case of my small country, almost literally no one wants this law - but that doesn't matter, we're a small country. The whole thing feels terribly wrong - 10 million people, the 100% majority of this rather big geographical location that is even separated by mountains on all sides, are just overruled, while they don't even understand the language these politicians are talking in...? Why couldn't we have our own rules regarding copyright, like up until now? Democracy doesn't just mean that there is some voting, it means that the people rule. In my country, our people no longer rule, now the Germans and the French rule our country (because we have less than 2% of votes in the EU parliament) and there is absolutely nothing democratic about that, the polar opposite actually. We're no longer a country, we've been reduced to a lowly region, and you people praise the EU for that while my grandfathers died for us to be sovereign and have a say in our matters. It feels sickening. I truly hope this law passes and it significantly reduces everyone's high opinion of the EU so we can finally talk about fixing this.

The funny/sad thing is that my people had more say over our country during the communist regime than we have today. The Soviets at least accepted bribes.

BTW yes, most people here would rather be poor and sovereign than the EU alternative. And we had no idea this is what we're joining back in 2004, and no one asked us when it changed - in fact, significant pressure that I deem absolutely unethical was made on our politicians to not let our people decide in a referendum.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#76

Post by cyborgx7 »

IdiocyInAction wrote: post #7

As an EU citizen, I hope large portions of the internet will just block us. A couple of days without YouTube, Wikipedia and other services would create sufficient outrage to put pressure on the EU for introducing these idiotic laws. I mean, GDPR is bad enough for start ups, but Article 13?

GDPR is good, Article 13 is bad.

The constant conflating of the two by private data protection oponents is really wearing thin.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#77

Post by honzzz »

krageon wrote: post #58
onli wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that A13 looks a bit like an anti-meme effort but it isn't because that is generally covered by parody or reasonable use regulations. That's exactly the problem. Stuff of that is protected, and with good reason. But upload filter that would be mandated by article 13 can't detect that fair use. By enforcing them for all platforms like Youtube all of this will vanish from the european internet.

You don't and can't know this and it is obvious because you are speculating about a future fact. It would help all of us if you couched it as such so that no reader can be deluded into thinking you have based your arguments on the kind of certainty that they seem to be based on.

We can predict some things with a reasonable amount of certainty. For example, if companies have one high-risk high-cost option (relying on sophisticated solutions able to distinguish edge cases like fair use) and low-risk low-cost option (blocking everything that is suspicious), we can expect them to chose the later.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#78

Post by TomMarius »

colechristensen wrote: post #57
duozerk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you want one of the largest collectives of human information to take sides (in any debate) and selectively remove its service When that debate is about access to that information, definitely, yes.

The point is well taken that doing such things should be rare and done very carefully.

You feel this isn't one of the cases when it's necessary?

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#79

Post by tyfon »

orangecat wrote: post #33
confounded wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 13 is terrible not because it’s terrible for start-ups, it’s terrible because it’s terrible for people. I’m pretty close to the rough-end of GDPR in my current job, but it represents real benefits for millions of people. If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. Or, at least a shift in the right direction. Article 13 o…

If you asked them what’s a reasonable way to treat their data, I believe the GDPR is close-ish to what a lot of Europeans would want. I'm pretty sure that if you asked people whether they would prefer to pay for Facebook and Google with cash or by sharing data for ad targeting, most would choose the latter. The GDPR specifically forbids that option. Article 13 on the other hand is what you get if you ask rights-holde…

I had absolutely no issue getting my family members to pay for an account at diasp.eu when google+ shut down.

They were rather happy to do so since one of its selling points is that they do not track users for advertising. Do not underestimate the general publics tracking/advertising fatigue.

Re: Four Wikipedias to ‘Black Out’ over EU Copyright Directive

#80

Post by silvester23 »

krageon wrote: post #63
tdb7893 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Wikipedia is protesting because it directly affects them. I don't see how it's problematic to advocate for themselves sometimes.

Because it is expected that they are as neutral as possible. People should advocate for encyclopedias, but they should not have opinions themselves. That impression can be argued to be wrong, of course.

Well, it is explicitly stated in the linked statement that

> “Wikipedia’s articles are neutral, [but] its existence is not.”

You might disagree with that position, but if you expect Wikipedia as a platform to be neutral, you have not been paying attention.

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