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Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

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Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#101

Post by james_s_tayler »

AlanSE wrote: post #35
ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

The drunk driving argument extends to Japan extremely poorly due to cultural and infrastructure differences. Public transportation in Japan is great. In urban areas it's also quite easy, accessible, and affordable to rent a capsule hotel "room" or net cafe seat. This is true no matter what your age or credit history, they won't ask for your drivers license, you can pay cash. It's honestly strange that I have to state…

In Japan you get fined even for being a passenger in a car where the driver is drunk.

It's mega strict.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#102

Post by qball »

nkkollaw wrote: post #51

Where does the age 18 comes from? I see that it's the age of adulthood in most countries. Your brain and body stop developing at 23 if I'm not mistaken?

It's completely arbitrary and inconsistent everywhere (it probably initially stems from how many males of that age can be drafted and yield a net benefit). Societies routinely violate this through their justice systems ("tried as adult" is a concept in many countries) and their taxation systems (taxation without representation is anathema to at least one country except in this case for some reason).

>Your brain and body stop developing at 23 if I'm not mistaken?

And your brain and body begin majorly degenerating past about 60 (insurance data rates them as causing about the same number of accidents per mile as beginning drivers starting at that age), but most countries don't strip your rights at that age.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#103

Post by saghm »

Y_Y wrote: post #94
saghm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were a universal thing, I could see it helping, but unfortunately I'd be surprised if only people who opt in having this feature makes a significant dent in the issue.

Well people do exercise this option if they are obliged to by a court ruling, or if it gets them a lower insurance premium.

Fair enough!

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#104

Post by magduf »

tropo wrote: post #99
magduf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When I was in my teens and 20s, I felt like older people were just rigging the rules for their benefit. As I approach 40, let me tell you younger folks something (even if it's useless), we are all on the same team and we're trying to make things the best we can (for you too). This isn't true at all, at least in America. The Boomers are absolutely pushing for policies that will benefit them at the expense of younger…

Consider the possibility that they are wiser, having been through some hard times, and might like to leave a functioning economy for the younger generations.

You're not going to have a functioning economy with the massive climate problems that are coming, along with the Boomer's refusal to invest in infrastructure. If you look at how the Boomers vote, all they care about is the "invading" "Mexicans", abortion, and lower taxes for rich people. Basically, they're a bunch of greedy racists who vote to shoot down any attempt to improve the economy through things like better taxation of the class that can afford to pay more taxes, and better infrastructure for all of us.

No, they're not wiser at all, and they haven't been through any hard times. You're thinking of their parents who went to war in WWII. Those people are mostly dead now. The Boomers are their spoiled, greedy children, who are mostly to blame for the state of this nation now.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#105

Post by Youden »

ghaff wrote: post #19
pattusk wrote: post #7

> But teenagers will still be banned from smoking, drinking alcohol and gambling until they are 20. The logic of this escapes me. Although the article does not seem to mention it, it seems probable that the voting age will likely also be lowered to 18. This means teenagers will be considered old enough to make decisions that will affect the entire country, all the while being considered too immature to make decisions…

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

> In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual).

To add another voice of dissent to the Danish poster's point of view, in Australia, you can drink at any age with parental consent (though child abuse laws would come into play if you do anything ridiculous) and you start to get your license at around 16 depending on the state.

Also, getting a full license in my state is a much involved process. It takes around 5 years if you aim to get it as young as possible: 1 year of supervised driving with a fully licensed passenger (there must be 120 hours of driving until you move to the next stage), then 1 year of a limited probationary license ("red P's") and finally 3 years of a less limited probationary license ("green P's").

Throughout this entire process, you cannot have _any_ alcohol in your blood while driving.

I think this, plus public awareness of drunk driving, is much better than just restricting drinking until you're 21. It means that usually, before you even get behind the wheel, you've had years to experience the effects of alcohol and get the thrill of it out of your system. Then once you're driving, you get used to the idea that you can't even have "just a little bit".

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#106

Post by tropo »

magduf wrote: post #104
tropo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the possibility that they are wiser, having been through some hard times, and might like to leave a functioning economy for the younger generations.

You're not going to have a functioning economy with the massive climate problems that are coming, along with the Boomer's refusal to invest in infrastructure. If you look at how the Boomers vote, all they care about is the "invading" "Mexicans", abortion, and lower taxes for rich people. Basically, they're a bunch of greedy racists who vote to shoot down any attempt to improve the economy through things like better t…

I think the 1973 oil crisis and the 1979 oil crisis both count as hard times. You seem to wish that the Boomers would vote for a self-inflicted oil crisis.

It's also hard to keep the lower class employed with a living wage if low-cost migrants keep underbidding them for employment.

While the Boomers haven't always made great decisions, this us-vs-them thinking neglects that the Boomers generally care about their descendants. Boomers do not wish to see their grandchildren suffering.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#107

Post by Matthias247 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #53
ghaff wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, the 21 yo drinking age is mostly a wholly pragmatic law [EDIT: laws. It's state by state but there was a big federal stick attached to highway funding.] to reduce teenage drunk driving (which affects more than the individual). Tobacco sales is mostly 18 in the US (although a few states are 21). Casinos also vary although the drinking age restricts It's hard to make an intellectual case for dispari…

I really like how Germany solved the drinking age problem: you can drink beer and wine at 16 and hard liquor at 18. This gives you a safety net to experiment with alcohol. You won't drink yourself into a coma with beer and you aren't allowed to drive till you are 18.

You can certainly drink yourself into coma with beer. Teens drinking 6-10 beers is not an uncommon thing at parties at that age.

That said practically the 16/18 distinction also isn't that important. If you are 16, you typically hang out also with some people that are >= 18, and which will then buy the other things. People might not necessarily start drinking with hard liquor, but the time to it is typically not 2 years.

Source: I'm german, and had been 16 and 18 a long time ago.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#108

Post by dasyatidprime »

dagw wrote: post #57
dasyatidprime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Me. Plus various other, similar situations. (I am in complete honesty unsure whether to regret it.)

But did you refuse the drink specifically because you where underage or because you didn't want to drink? If that same party had been in country where you where legally allowed to drink would you have drunk then?

It was primarily the former. Had I been in a jurisdiction where it was legal, it seems very possible I would have tried some of the alcoholic drinks—of course I don't know this for sure, because that's not what happened. I didn't have a strong desire for it at the time, so it's not an ideal test case, but neither is it an isolated case; other situations with age-restricted materials or activities went very similarly.

(I'm eliding and slightly distorting a lot of surrounding details both because my memory of the time is often fuzzy and because I don't feel inclined to detail too much of my ancient personal life here. The central points, however, I'm clear on.)

It might be worth adding, to circle back toward the original topic, that while I notice that this isn't “normal” in much of the US (where I live), people around me have wondered whether I got this tendency from somewhere else. (In fact, I had one (non-Japanese) Asian immigrant parent, and while that one was quite chaotic about following the local laws, it's possible that more indirect connections had strong subtle influences.) Some societies are much more regimented and/or conformist, and Japan is frequently described as both (not that I would know what bearing it has on these specific questions). The “natural pattern of rule breaks” is not universal, neither in cultures where it's nearly-expected, nor between cultures.

Re: Japan plans to lower age of adulthood to 18 (2018)

#110

Post by dasyatidprime »

scarface74 wrote: post #56
dasyatidprime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Me. Plus various other, similar situations. (I am in complete honesty unsure whether to regret it.)

Do you also never go over the speed limit? My sense of “honesty” isn’t dictated by the government. Now whether I obey the law is determined strictly by a risk/rewards calculation But those are still entirely different.

Currently, I don't drive, so I have no empirical answer.

Some people who know me have joked that I would hate learning to drive (here in the US) because of the issue where most drivers break the speed limit most of the time and expect others to do the same. I think I could get used to it or find a way to deal with it, but it's possible it would stress me out for a while at the beginning.

As I sorta-mentioned, I'm not sure my original level of tendency to follow the rules is actually adaptive here. The point was more the existence proof. And between cultures it may vary even more widely than this.

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