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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a nose like a bloodhound. If someone has been smoking in the house, there is no way to hide it from me. My cleaning lady is also somewhat of a detective and has been known to go through the trash if she thinks rules have been broken. Smoking outside is a different problem. Until recently I didn't forbid it, but earlier this year I found cigarette butts in the brush below the deck, along with a burn mark on the…

> I took their entire security deposit is this legal? I thought you were only allowed to deduct actual damage / cost of repairs from a security deposit, not punitive charges.

they did mention there was a burn mark on the dining room table. not sure how that happened when smoking outside but that is damages

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#302

AirBnb is a terrible, terrible company. Most of their money comes from corporate-owned mini-hotels yet they advertise as a mom and pop shop. At every turn their solution is to sue small towns and cities so they can continue to extract wealth from our neighborhoods. Disgusting.

What is a corporate owned mini-hotel? I am a fairly frequent Airbnb consumer and I have yet to stay somewhere that wasn't mom and pop.

I don't know about corporate ownership (other than you'd be insane to not have at least an LLC) but I've stayed in AirBNB apartments that belonged to people with many such properties. My impression was it was individuals/families with maybe 5-10 properties in a city, as opposed to some MegaCorp, but this is also has a pretty nasty effect on the rental market for locals.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#303
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living here for 9 years now, I think I'm in great position to see what's going on. I don't buy your argument for many reasons, most of which I mentioned in my original post. The low-class, ghetto criminal element has nothing to do with Winter Music Conference or South Beach culture. If you go through the links I included in my original post and look at some videos, it'll quickly become apparent. These peopl…

> These people have been enabled by dirt cheap Airbnb prices. Also, look at sites such as Hotel Tonight. Personally seen < 50 a night rooms.

Yes the idea that its something unique to Airbnb is a myth. Miami Beach is dominated by hotels and they have strong anti-Airbnb messaging. Meanwhile their hotels dominate the skyline and take up all of the beachfront property. Some of the hotels will act like the beach is private if you don't rent their beach chairs which is of course not true.

The hotel industry distortion field is probably stronger in Miami Beach than almost anywhere because so much money depends on it.

I also don't believe that most the Airbnb rentals on Miami Beach are particularly cheap. The one nearby that I know of charges many thousands per night as its a mansion.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#304
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb has the ability to enforce these policies internally, which would come with the bonus of not needing to lose money to local governments. It's simply that they don't. In much the same way that Uber skirts the laws of background checks, Airbnb responds to complaints and attempts to introduce regulation with lawsuits. I wish the Hotel and Cab markets were disrupted by companies that wanted to optimize within the…

To optimize within the cab rules, you’d need to have drivers purchase a medallion and only be able to make pickups in the city which issued the medallion... To optimize within the hotel rules, you’d need hosts to get a hotel/rooming house license...

Cab medallions are currently transferable, so you would need to purchase enough medallions to operate the fleet you would hit at peak usage, but otherwise you'd just need to ensure that all of the driver can qualify for a medallion.

Hotel/rooming house licenses aren't un-affordable, there are regulations around them but both motel6 and mom&pop B&Bs can acquire them, so the bar is generally pretty low. For instance in Cambridge, MA it looks like it'd cost about 200$[1] to file for the license, Airbnb could probably offer legal services to help people properly apply if they cared to.

[1] https://www.cambridgema.gov/iwantto/applyforahotellodgingori...

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the other option... don't buy property that has these rules in place and you'll never have the problem. It's not like these rules pop up randomly - you have to sign condo/HOA docs as part of the closing process.

I agree. HOAs are still relatively rare outside of SoCal, so this issue is unlikely to pop up for 99.999% of the US population.

HOAs (in neighborhoods with houses) do a lot of things local governments do in other parts of the country, like south suburban chicago, where I grew up -- operate pools, common lawn care, etc.

I'm on a condo board currently and those are an entirely separate thing, much more intense, much more money, and much more service (when run well).

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#306
post #97
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did the people looking for long-term rental housing who found it difficult to find long-term rentals love it? This is just passing the buck. If AirBnB is driving up rents you have a supply problem, not an AirBnB problem.

What kind of argument is that though ? You should go to SF or NY and tell them it's just a supply problem, they probably haven't thought of it before. Do you know the cost of destroying + rebuilding bigger buildings in a city center ? Much higher than closing a few semi legal "airbnb hotels". And that's if you can even build in the city at all.

That's exactly it. They have thought about it but the people who complain about AirBnBs are generally the benifitors of artificially reduced supply. Nobody is renting AirBnBs in Bensonhurst, they're in the WV or Chelsea. World's tiniest violin.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#307
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did the people looking for long-term rental housing who found it difficult to find long-term rentals love it? This is just passing the buck. If AirBnB is driving up rents you have a supply problem, not an AirBnB problem.

No, I don't think it's simply a supply problem. As much as it pains me to use a reductionist metaphor, I'm going to. Suppose my community has a finite amount of resource X available to us that we need to live and and we only require 75% of that resource. A company comes along and offers individuals a whole pile a money to sell of their claims to the resource, so much so that the company now controls 90% of that resou…

If AirBnBs overtook 90% of the apartments in your neighborhood this example might be relevant.

> The company begins boxing up that resource and shipping it off to people who will pay more money for that resource.

Unless you live in Christiana this is probably already the case. AirBnBs tend to be in expensive neighborhoods.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to survive. Dozens of towns across Colorado are depending on this sort of longer-duration vacation tourism for their survival. The ones who do it well will thrive without too much change to their character (and without being colonized by casino companies). And like I…

I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it. Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad. What I like about hotels is the consistency of service and cleanliness, availability of nearby food or other services. Don’t get me wrong: even though I’ve had some bad experiences with individual hosts on Airbn…

> I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it. Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad.

That sounds nice, and it suits a lot of people just fine. But try doing that with a family, and on a limited budget.

I'll give you an example: last year I "rented" my own place for a week with family. We crammed thirteen of us into our house (it's properly equipped to sleep 12 but we've never had that many aside from our own family). My father-in-law took us out to dinner the first night, and we ate breakfast at restaurants most mornings. The cost of food was likely over a thousand dollars for the week, but it could easily have been double or triple that if we'd eaten out every day. As it was, some of our money went to the local grocery store instead of restaurants, and we were able to afford a week-long vacation instead of just a weekend.

You can't do this in a hotel with mini-fridge and a microwave. If you want to bring your family on a week-long vacation in the Colorado Mountains, and if you're not wealthy, then you do it by renting my house, which has a full kitchen, enough rooms, beds, and foldouts for a large family, and costs half or even a quarter of what the same space a hotel would cost.

So it's not that hotels are worse than vacation rentals. They're just different. They serve different markets. If places like mine didn't exist, the groups and families that stay there aren't going to stay in hotels instead; they're not going to come to this town at all, because hotels can't provide comfortable longer-duration vacations that are also affordable for most people.

This is extremely important for ski vacations. Skiing is expensive enough as it is, that most people can afford just a few days a year with the hotel, food, and fuel costs that come with it. But my place can make it downright cheap in comparison.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#309
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb has the ability to enforce these policies internally, which would come with the bonus of not needing to lose money to local governments. It's simply that they don't. In much the same way that Uber skirts the laws of background checks, Airbnb responds to complaints and attempts to introduce regulation with lawsuits. I wish the Hotel and Cab markets were disrupted by companies that wanted to optimize within the…

Airbnb definitely has become a great example in the 'if you don't regulate yourself as an industry you will become regulated whether you want to or not.' Unlike some of the dynamics in some of the other industries the people that airbnb exploits are individuals who rent/own property and every new airbnb host is effectively having to relearn every problem and potential pitfall/cost that hoteliers or seasoned short-ter…

I hear that argument fairly consistently about Uber drivers, but I ask most of my Uber drivers their experience on the platform. Almost every one of them seems to have quite a good grasp of the economics that are relevant to their situation.

They break down into 3 groups. The smallest are people between jobs. They're doing something that's better than their best alternative.

The next largest group are the occasional drivers, meaning Uber is not their main job. These people typically already own a car, so the fixed costs are leaving their pocket every month whether or not they drive ride sharing. Ride sharing more than comfortably covers their variable costs, so they're making money.

The largest group (in terms of rides given/taken, not in terms of drivers) are people who are driving Uber essentially full-time. Many of them have bought a car specifically for its Uber suitability (good gas mileage, low maintenance, etc) and I think these drivers are properly thinking about their expenses (because they're pretty compartmentalized).

I know it's common to think that the drivers are not fully and rationally evaluating the value proposition that Uber offers, but I see pretty frequent evidence to the contrary. There are fewer than 5% of people for whom I ask the question who respond in a way that makes me think that they think their predominant expense is "just gas money".

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#310

The more I look at AirBnb, it reality it seems like a conspiracy to enable illegal activity (illegal listings, not collecting taxes). I wonder if in the future, a US Attorney or State Attorney General will attempt to bring criminal charges against the principals of the company. The threat of real jail time would do wonders to get their attention.

What? How in the hell did we get to the point where building a service that lets people rent their living space to short term guests is "a conspiracy to enable illegal activity"?

If airbnb hosts aren't paying taxes properly, then the hosts are committing a crime, not airbnb. Cities may want airbnb to collect taxes on behalf of hosts, because it makes enforcement much easier. That's a reasonable thing to want. However I don't see what conceivable jurisdiction Palm Beach county has over Airbnb that would enable it to coerce airbnb to collect said taxes. Accordingly, I can't imagine why anyone in airbnb's position wouldn't sue, in order to avoid the formation of precedent that allows every municipality in the country to impose whatever requirements they want on airbnb.

You may think airbnb is a net negative for many communities, and you're entitled to your opinion, but that's not evidence that crimes have been committed.

As for why US Attorneys and State AGs aren't bringing criminal charges, probably because they are actual lawyers who understand that you would have to provide evidence that a law has been broken.

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