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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#261

Post by BoorishBears »

jessriedel wrote: post #241
rifung wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But outside of that structure, what gives someone the right to dictate to their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property? All kinds of small businesses are routinely run out of residential zoned properties. "Renting a room" seems like the kind of small business that's ideal for this situation - it takes no more infrastructure to house a vacation rental than it does to house a longer-term residen…

koboll ask "what gives someone the right to dictate to their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property?" he isn't asking for the legal mechanism. He's asking about whether the law is just. That something is the law is not a good argument alone.

If the guests hadn't spoiled the experience of their neighbors I doubt there'd have been any intervention.

While people have qualms with the effect of short term rentals on housing markets, they usually don't show up on an HOA level.

The real problem is they were being bad neighbors, not that they were short-term neighbors, and once your neighbor starts to ruin your ability to enjoy your home you have a just argument to take action.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#262

Post by joseph-curwen »

yardie wrote: post #257
joseph-curwen wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a story about Miami Beach: I moved there 9 years ago and have spent the last 8 years living on Ocean Drive in South Beach. When I first moved there the neighborhood was full of high-class tourists, a lot of Europeans. The beach was not extremely crowded, you had nice restaurants and upscale shops and the vibes you were getting were similar to what you would see in the Mediterranean (Spain / south France). Wit…

I grew up in Miami and Miami Beach since the 80s. Miami Beach, and Ocean Drive have never been what you described. When I lived there fights, shootings, and prostitution was quite flagrant on Ocean. Before being redeveloped into million dollar condos, SoFi was a ghetto. Spring Break is fairly new to the area. Prior to that the college students would hit Daytona, Panama City, or Key West. And long before that Fort Lau…

First of all the 80s were close to 40 years ago. How about the period 2000-2010? What did change after 2010 that wasn't there before? Miami Beach was always a touristy place. Spring Break and Memorial Day were always rowdy affairs.

And when I talked about shop/restaurants closing I emphasized their replacements. It's one thing for restaurants to close in Miami Beach (happens every year). It's quite another for same restaurant to close and be replaced by a kebab or pizza place. Entire streets that were lined with upscale shops have been turned into cash extraction mechanisms for unsophisticated, drunken passers by. What does that tell you about the character of the neighborhood?

Today's SOBE bears little resemblance to SOBE of the pre-Airbnb past.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#263

Post by nkingsy »

The reporting on New Orleans is frustrating. They quote city officials complaining about the registration system being shut down and losing years of work, and they quote Airbnb saying that the system was shut down because the city changed the law and made it ineffective.

Seems like the journalist could've figure out what really happened here and just reported it rather than printing two conflicting accounts and wiping their hands of it.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#264

Post by jak92 »

joseph-curwen wrote: post #262
yardie wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Miami and Miami Beach since the 80s. Miami Beach, and Ocean Drive have never been what you described. When I lived there fights, shootings, and prostitution was quite flagrant on Ocean. Before being redeveloped into million dollar condos, SoFi was a ghetto. Spring Break is fairly new to the area. Prior to that the college students would hit Daytona, Panama City, or Key West. And long before that Fort Lau…

First of all the 80s were close to 40 years ago. How about the period 2000-2010? What did change after 2010 that wasn't there before? Miami Beach was always a touristy place. Spring Break and Memorial Day were always rowdy affairs. And when I talked about shop/restaurants closing I emphasized their replacements. It's one thing for restaurants to close in Miami Beach (happens every year). It's quite another for same r…

The carnival like open air entertainment district on ocean drive.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#265

Post by jak92 »

joseph-curwen wrote: post #255
mrgordon wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Florida literally invented Spring Break destination travel so I'd hardly blame Airbnb for this. The street racing and machismo culture has been there as long as I can remember (easily back through the 90s) and its the locals doing that. I'd blame Winter Music Conference and the constant stream of other huge party events as much as anything.

I've been living here for 9 years now, I think I'm in great position to see what's going on. I don't buy your argument for many reasons, most of which I mentioned in my original post. The low-class, ghetto criminal element has nothing to do with Winter Music Conference or South Beach culture. If you go through the links I included in my original post and look at some videos, it'll quickly become apparent. These peopl…

> These people have been enabled by dirt cheap Airbnb prices.

Also, look at sites such as Hotel Tonight. Personally seen < 50 a night rooms.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#266

Post by nate_meurer »

siruncledrew wrote: post #249
nate_meurer wrote: post #81

I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Our place is busy, and our guests make a significant impact on the town, spending a lot of money in local shops and restaurants. On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Cities and co…

Your story shows an example of doing things the "proper way" - you operate by-the-book, you take responsibility for the property, and you're an active local small biz participant. The bigger issue is the people not doing these things. There are hosts (and guests) that simply don't give a fuck about others. Hosts (especially ones that don't live in the area) couldn't care less about their impact on the neighborhood as…

I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to survive. Dozens of towns across Colorado are depending on this sort of longer-duration vacation tourism for their survival. The ones who do it well will thrive without too much change to their character (and without being colonized by casino companies). And like I said in another comment, hotels are useless for attracting this kind of tourism.

AirBNB should behave better, no doubt. And if they don't, they should be made to behave through thoughtful regulation that doesn't endanger the economy and character of places all over the country that are coming to depend on travelers.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#267

Post by nkingsy »

nate_meurer wrote: post #251
acct1771 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your native language isn't English, what is it? I have to know =]

American English. I hope. :) Does my writing seem otherwise?

I think "toilet tissue", and "bloody hell" aren't american standard.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#268

Post by leesalminen »

nate_meurer wrote: post #137
cbsks wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>On the other hand, there is increased wear on city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water, sewer, and sanitation services. Why would renters cause more wear on those resources than full time occupants?

Great question. In my case, the home is consistently occupied by more people than would otherwise be living there full time, and they're much more active than a family of permanent residents would be. They eat out a lot, drive around the town and up mountain roads, and if they're skiiers or outdoor sports-people, they're in and out of town every day. Guests are usually groups of blended family and friends, so there a…

You could tell people that the septic system is not designed for large amounts of paper and is prone to clogging. Tell them that if that happens, there will be a pricey charge for a plumber to come out. You’re scaring them into being mindful without the negative taste of charging for use of toilet paper.

How do you ban smoking outside? Are you on property keeping tabs on your guests every move?

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#269

Post by lotsofpulp »

gamblor956 wrote: post #245
alistairSH wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the other option... don't buy property that has these rules in place and you'll never have the problem. It's not like these rules pop up randomly - you have to sign condo/HOA docs as part of the closing process.

I agree. HOAs are still relatively rare outside of SoCal, so this issue is unlikely to pop up for 99.999% of the US population.

22-24% of US population according to this website:

https://foundation.caionline.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/...

I don't think I've seen a development in the last 30 years that doesn't have an HOA, and it seems like like all of Florida/Texas is HOA.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#270

Post by kovacs »

dcosson wrote: post #113
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are very respectful and reasonable. As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. You…

We have zoning laws for a reason. AirBnB is encouraging people to break those laws. It's no different than anyone running a business in a residential zoned area. Do people run small businesses out of their houses? Sure, all the time and technically they're breaking the law. But the main question to ask is are they impacting those around them? For AirBnB that answer is clearly yes. It disrupts the rights of the existing neighbors that are abiding by zoning laws. Just like you can't live in a store front, we can't have people just doing whatever they want because "eh fuck em I own this"... no, you kinda don't. You rent the land from the government and there are laws you are bound by when entering in that agreement. We're trying to have a society here.

I'm no attorney but to me it's pretty clear that AirBnB shouldn't be allowed to exist as a business the way it stands today. It's incredible they've made it this far.

I'd love to hear some concrete rebuttal as to why what they're doing is OK besides the "less government/regulation" angle.

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