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Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

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Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#151

Post by gamblor956 »

dcosson wrote: post #113
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are very respectful and reasonable. As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. You…

As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first. You don't own the neighborhood, you own single plot of land, and people who want to buy other plots of land and collectively evolve the neighborhood in new directions should have just as much of a right as you do.

The commenter you're replying to was a member of the Board of an HOA. Meaning that he lived in a condo or townhouse development or a private community. In all of these cases, all of the owners are bound by the common rules of the HOA (which, as owners, they have the right to vote on, amend, etc.), and "tight local control" is pretty much the point.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#152

Post by bduerst »

ThJ wrote: post #67

I feel there is a difference between putting your home up for short term rent while you're away versus buying multiple homes that you never stay in and operating them as a self-service hotel. There's nothing wrong with this, but if you run a business, you must file the appropriate paperwork and follow the same rules as other businesses.

You could gate it on primary residence, but some people have family-owned cabins or lake homes that AirBnB would still be a good way to optimize use of the asset. It seems like zoning regulations are still a good way to regulate this.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#153

Post by duxup »

evilotto wrote: post #144
duxup wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it were easy to report abuses to Airbnb directly, or if local police were instructed to contact them, the platform could better regulate itself. I don't think Airbnb really cares to do that... and that kinda is where the problems start in terms of what Airbnb is really all about.

It's funny how all the "disruptive" startups have the same basic business model of taking money away from someone who was getting it before (generally local governments, but that cascades to many other people like medallion holders); giving some of that money to the customers and call it a discount, and keeping the rest of it for themselves.

There very much is a pattern there isn't there....

Also wonder how many of them structurally work to disrupt themselves into a sort of untenable situation.

Like can Facebook exist at its scale ... and not sell everyone's data or just behave as it does?

Can gig economy companies exist without grabbing into tips / passing risk off onto delivery people?

I don't know.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#154

Post by evanlivingston »

ng12 wrote: post #43
evanlivingston wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guests may have loved it, but did the neighbors love it? Did the people looking for long-term rental housing who found it difficult to find long-term rentals love it? Did the people looking to get into home-ownership only to find that residential real-estate prices were increasing now that residential properties were semi-commercial properties love it?

> Did the people looking for long-term rental housing who found it difficult to find long-term rentals love it? This is just passing the buck. If AirBnB is driving up rents you have a supply problem, not an AirBnB problem.

No, I don't think it's simply a supply problem.

As much as it pains me to use a reductionist metaphor, I'm going to. Suppose my community has a finite amount of resource X available to us that we need to live and and we only require 75% of that resource. A company comes along and offers individuals a whole pile a money to sell of their claims to the resource, so much so that the company now controls 90% of that resource. The company begins boxing up that resource and shipping it off to people who will pay more money for that resource. My community now has meet their need another way, and probably in a more expensive way.

Regardless of how the resource should have been managed, and what the authorities in my community should have done to ensure we had the necessary access to our resource I think I can still point a finger at the company say "If that company didn't exist they wouldn't control our resource."

Obviously the metaphor is riddled with unconsidered complexities but I use it as a way of raising the question of at least an ounce of culpability of the company.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#155

Post by tzs »

iandanforth wrote: post #73
braythwayt wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail? If I buy a house in a neighbourhood full of single-family dwellings that are all one and two storeys high, should I be able to build a condo building on my land? Can I open a nightclub in my house? What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash in? There's a tre…

Mostly correct. US zoning laws in particular are responsible for urban sprawl, separation of services from housing and the massive environmental impact that produces. Default mixed use is demonstrably more efficient use of land. Cleaver neighborhoods are toxic.

> US zoning laws in particular are responsible for urban sprawl [...]

Houston managed an impressive urban sprawl without zoning laws.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#156

Post by [deleted] »

e1ven wrote: post #133
Juliate wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But outside of that structure, what gives someone the right to dictate to their neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property? Ha. Don't come in Europe cities. There _are_ regulations in cities about that. And rightly so.

American cities have lots of regulations about this as well. AirBnB is making it easier for individual people to ignore these rules, and the to date enforcement hasn't been particularly strong.

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#157

Post by munk-a »

parthdesai wrote: post #142
hannob wrote: post #60

I find it really unfortunate that the airbnb debate is always so polarized. AirBNB has often provided me a better alternative to a largely terrible hotel market that often takes racket prices and makes me pay for services I don't need. On the other hand I completely understand when people are annoyed about party folk living in the flat above them or when they lack safety regulations or don't pay the same taxes hotels…

>On the other hand I completely understand when people are annoyed about party folk living in the flat above them or when they lack safety regulations or don't pay the same taxes hotels do. Or creating a shortage of supply for actual people looking to rent in the cities desirable areas, which results in increase of rent. That's the biggest one imo.

They do have some effect on pricing, sure, but there is a much larger culprit in local zoning practices at work when it comes to housing affordability.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#158

Post by bluGill »

koboll wrote: post #55
duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

>In the end it was just a horrible situation to open up what was a hotel, right in the middle of our association / neighborhood. By joining a HOA, you've delegated away to the collective the right to dictate to your neighbors what they can and can't do with their own property. In your case, the system worked - because you are in a HOA. If people want to exert that kind of collectivist control over their neighbors, th…

I have a right to dictate who parks in my driveway. I have rights to a quiet time to sleep at night.

I don't object to you running a hotel next door, but I expect your guests to behave themselves well..

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#159

Post by rayiner »

duxup wrote: post #26

I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ... before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care because why should they? I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal with this house. We g…

> Local governments are run by the locals and they should get to decide where businesses like that operate and zone and so forth.

Local governments are the wrong level for those sorts of decisions to be made. You don't have any right to tell your neighbors what to do with their property. Now, it's legitimate for the government to make rules of general application for everyone, but local governments have too much conflict of interest to make these decisions in a globally optimal way.

Japan, which has a national zoning law, is the right model. In our system, we'd apply it at the state level.

Re: Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments

#160

Post by unknownkadath »

Nashville resident here.

A drunk airbnb user tried to break into a neighbor's house around 11 pm last week while the residents were inside. He was lost and thought he was at his rental, but that wasn't apparent to anyone else in the beginning, so my wife gets a call for help from another neighbor and we go to check it out.

When we get there, we discover the assailant has been treed on a shed roof by the woman whose door he had beaten on. She was home alone with her baby at the time. She was (understandably) waving a ball-peen hammer at him and shouting.

Let's call him Trey.

Trey is around 6' 3" and a bit on the husky side. He is maybe 25 and he is wearing a worn out Auburn hat and a nice polo shirt. Trey is crying and refusing to speak to any of the small crowd that has gathered, some of whom who are darkly muttering about burglars and drugs. Trey is talking into his phone, quietly, holding it like a slice of pizza.

Trey has called his mom.

My SO and I figure out what has happened about the same time. "Hey buddy, are you looking for your airbnb?" I called.

Luckily, we were able to de-escalate before Metro PD arrived or Trey was beaten to death with a hammer by a 5' tall woman. It turns out that Trey had given his Uber driver the wrong adress on the way home from Broadway; he was supposed to be about one street over. We get a hold of the groom whose bachelor party Trey was a part of, and the police give Trey a ride home.

So, that can happen.

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