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Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

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Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#151

Post by watwut »

FractalParadigm wrote: post #84
diogenescynic wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is working fewer hours. As a society, we are overworked. We should all be pushing for shorter work weeks.

Tradespeople work more hours than anybody I know, and the unfortunate reality seems to be that they have to. Otherwise projects would take twice as long, and in the event of an emergency there could potentially be nobody to answer to it. Where I am, it's not uncommon to see an electrician or millwright working 70+ hour weeks to meet deadlines or make emergency repairs.

Then maybe the projects should take twice as long. Altrough, it is highly unlikely that 70 hours a week would produce twice as much speed as 40 hours. You dont get faster per hour with overtime.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#152

Post by vanderZwan »

_hardwaregeek wrote: post #98

There's several issues I've noticed as a student. First, kids are told to go to college immediately after high school. If college was high school 2.0, this would be fine. But college is completely different from high school; it's significantly more expensive, more free form and more rigorous (at least compared to most high schools). I see so many students who clearly have no clue what they want to do, why they're in…

> Of course, I'm very fortunate to have taken a gap year and worked as a programmer.

I told my youngest sister to take a gap year to figure herself out. She didn't, and now years into college she has decided to switch studies, just like I did. Luckily we're Dutch and this is actually a realistic possibility for us.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#153

Post by masonic »

asaph wrote: post #51
justinzollars wrote: post #4

I feel like everyone is doing social media marketing - or something equally useless while the world around us is breaking down. In the Bay Area, in San Francisco specifically, voters allocated funds to fix or replace every single Bart escalator. The best hope we have for completing this job is 7 years. Yes you read this correctly 7 years. The problem is we do not have enough licensed escalator mechanics to do the wor…

Why are 100% of the BART escalators in such dire need of repair or replacement? Are they poor products? Are they very old? Are they poorly maintained?

Most BART escalator breakdowns are caused not by "natural causes" / wear and tear but by debris (often, human waste).

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#154

Post by mnm1 »

College isn't just about jobs. I studied philosophy, got two diplomas in it and now I write software for a living. Do I regret it? Of course not. I learned a lot in college. I learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about learning, other people, and the world. I'm glad I didn't waste those four years learning computers, something I was much better able to do on my own. Yes, if the only goal is to learn job skills only, most colleges and most majors shouldn't exist and they certainly shouldn't be pursued. I know it's hard for the author to fathom, but there are other reasons to learn. Many people enjoy learning and it improves lives in many immeasurable ways. It's so shortsighted to look at a college education as simply a path to better jobs that may or may not exist. Frankly, it's a stupid, small minded idea that seems to be pervasive in America's culture of stupidity. Isn't our society stupid enough without people railing against higher education? Perhaps if more people could attend college, if the costs weren't astronomical we'd have a better, more educated society and culture instead of the stupidity that dominates. That's reason enough to encourage people to go to college, let alone all the personal reasons mentioned above.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#155

Post by watwut »

boazbarak wrote: post #7

I have posted about this on https://windowsontheory.org/2018/05/02/short-non-review-of-c... I am of course biased as a faculty (though I think his policy prescriptions would negatively effect public schools more than private universities such as Harvard), but I think Caplan's analysis is extremely shallow. First, note that if he's right, higher education should be an incredible drag on the economy - we're taking 4 hi…

I dunno. Typical corporate requires way more conformity then college, especially low levels where you get to be victim of abusive management. Also, I did not found college boring, real world jobs had bigger ratio of boring repetitive but still necessary tasks then college.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#156

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

Delfino wrote: post #50
justinzollars wrote: post #4

I feel like everyone is doing social media marketing - or something equally useless while the world around us is breaking down. In the Bay Area, in San Francisco specifically, voters allocated funds to fix or replace every single Bart escalator. The best hope we have for completing this job is 7 years. Yes you read this correctly 7 years. The problem is we do not have enough licensed escalator mechanics to do the wor…

I agree with some of what you said but as an educator, the statement "Not everyone is cut out for college." doesn't sit well with me. Outside of some severe disabilities, I don't think there's anything inherent about who can and can't eventually succeed in college. Some people aren't adequately prepared for college by the time they turn 18 and that's a societal failure. Everyone should have the opportunity to go to a…

Some people just don't give a shit about education and go to college because of a piece of paper they are promised will get them a cushy job.

College _is not_ for everyone, and the bar for success in college is constantly being lowered because of it.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#157

Post by bhl »

i_s wrote: post #44
analog31 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, just make life harder for everybody. Nice. How does subsidizing education, thus creating more college graduates, increase the value of a degree? There must be some sort of monstrous arbitrage going on, where young people have figured out a scheme for boosting their market value, and employers are utterly clueless about it. My own suggestions would be to provide better protections for blue collar workers, such a…

> Okay, just make life harder for everybody. Nice. If you spend less on one thing, you can spend more on other things (or tax less), so I don't see how that follows. > How does subsidizing education, thus creating more college graduates, increase the value of a degree? I would think about it like this instead: subsidizing education lowers the cost, making it more attractive than it otherwise would be compared to the…

> If you spend less on one thing, you can spend more on other things (or tax less), so I don't see how that follows.

As an additional note, universities right now are getting a huge subsidy: not only through tuition and student loans, but also from exemptions on income, property, and most importantly, endowment taxes.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#158

Post by krageon »

bdamm wrote: post #134
FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So most people go into trades and yet it’s still incredibly expensive to hire a tradesperson? Sounds like the market is failing.

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. It's a legit question.

Because we've all heard the "market" arguments hundreds of times here and they never seem to have much to do with reality at all. It's gotten to the point where I have real trouble assuming good faith when someone brings it up again.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#159

Post by krageon »

FractalParadigm wrote: post #84
diogenescynic wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is working fewer hours. As a society, we are overworked. We should all be pushing for shorter work weeks.

Tradespeople work more hours than anybody I know, and the unfortunate reality seems to be that they have to. Otherwise projects would take twice as long, and in the event of an emergency there could potentially be nobody to answer to it. Where I am, it's not uncommon to see an electrician or millwright working 70+ hour weeks to meet deadlines or make emergency repairs.

> Otherwise projects would take twice as long, and in the event of an emergency there could potentially be nobody to answer to it.

Where precisely is the trouble for the tradeperson? This is something for the owner of the project to worry about, not someone who does the work.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#160

Post by navane »

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #120
rumcajz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland, most people go into trades. Higher education is not seen ad having higher status in any way. Also, if you call a plumber to fix your broken sink, it's going to be really expensive.

So most people go into trades and yet it’s still incredibly expensive to hire a tradesperson? Sounds like the market is failing.

Perhaps people go into the trades _because_ they are expensive to hire.

The market works two ways.

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