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China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

bloomberg.com

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Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#71

Post by crumpets »

jwr wrote: post #47
siculars wrote: post #11

This is a very good way to think about the price of goods. When supply and demand are in relative equilibrium price remains stable and reflects the cost of production plus some margin for manufacturers. When you trim demand even slightly by a few percent - which EVs in their various forms will inevitably do - what happens to price? Where is the new demand for oil to compensate? Jet fuel? I believe price per unit oil…

The price of oil is unrealistic, because it does not reflect the terrible damage to our planet. In other words, the current price can be so low because we are "borrowing" the planet from our children and grandchildren. We get cheap oil because they will not have a planet to live on. If the price were to include a carbon tax, it would likely be at least ten times higher and we would very quickly get rid of our beloved…

>We get cheap oil because they will not have a planet to live on.

Yes they will. Hyperbole is unnecessary and harmful when the real projected outcomes are already bad enough.

>If the price were to include a carbon tax, it would likely be at least ten times higher and we would very quickly get rid of our beloved gas guzzlers.

10x is highly unlikely. At 450kg of CO2 per barrel and even $50/ton of CO2 offset costs that’s about $25 additional per barrel, which puts it at a lower cost than the 2007 era peaks.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#72

Post by randomsearch »

hawkice wrote: post #31
twblalock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The framing of the article is that oil companies need to be more concerned about the Chinese buses than about Tesla. It's a simple rhetorical device, not a statement that Tesla does not matter.

I've sometimes been concerned that headline writing is (metaphorically) subcontracted to buzzfeed everywhere, NYT, The Atlantic, Bloomberg, just about everywhere.

Recently (thanks to a post on HN) I’ve discovered the Financial Times to be a mature news source that doesn’t generally go in for clickbait.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#73

Post by osdiab »

shard972 wrote: post #38
natch wrote: post #25

Now they need to get off coal as the source of much of that electricity. I’m not saying they won’t though... I’m pretty sure they are onboard with both cleaning up their environment, and limiting their CO2 emissions.

What makes you confident they are onboard with limiting CO2 emissions when they are currently looking the other way at rising CFC emissions which are far more harmful.

They’ve done a ton of stuff to limit emissions, from flat out banning coal furnaces in some regions (somewhat prematurely) and halting all construction for future coal plants, investing in mass transit much more than any country on the planet, prioritizing nuclear energy, leading the world on solar, mandating all electric scooter car and bus fleets across the entire society. Chinese (yes, people are very outspoken and critical about environment even in censored media) and foreign press coverage on the sheer scope of environmental reform happening in China right now is well documented and prolific.

But it’s a big country, so change like this takes time to see the macro effects. You can see it all playing out on the ground if you go in person, but the air won’t totally clean up until power generation fully transitions - I’d give it a decade to be safe (but ask locals now and they’ll tell you it’s at least gotten better).

Meanwhile our president here in the USA is unraveling the EPA and defunding Dept of Energy, even as we’re #1 polluters of the world. I think we are in no position to talk on this one.

All it takes to find this is a little time and an open mind.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#74

Post by dzhiurgis »

evolve2k wrote: post #61

This points out a new opportunity. Why stop at China for electric busses (yes they are probably manufacturing them locally)? Cities are seeming increasingly more able to be proactive than countries. Encourage local cities to one by one electrify the bus network and this effect goes global. It’s obvious tangible action that citizens can demand and mayors can visibly deliver. Game for those playing at home, do a search…

Problem is cities want to super-customise their buses kicking the cost probably 3x

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#75

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

evolve2k wrote: post #61

This points out a new opportunity. Why stop at China for electric busses (yes they are probably manufacturing them locally)? Cities are seeming increasingly more able to be proactive than countries. Encourage local cities to one by one electrify the bus network and this effect goes global. It’s obvious tangible action that citizens can demand and mayors can visibly deliver. Game for those playing at home, do a search…

Dallas seems to be taking some steps. [1]

[1] https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/dallas-deploys-electric...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#76

Post by crumpets »

Razengan wrote: post #62
natch wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s a delicate subject. Giving someone the power to decide who is and is not allowed/able/encouraged to have babies is scary stuff for many people.

We already have a LOT of laws decide who is and is not allowed/able/encouraged to have a LOT of other very basic rights: Food, shelter, healthcare, education, sex.

Other than the last one, those are entitlements requiring the government provide you with things, not rights.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#77

Post by melling »

crumpets wrote: post #63
melling wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a clickbait title. More appropriate clickbait would be “the United States becomes the #1 producer of oil while China rushes to electric vehicles”, busses and cars: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-electric/chin...

That revision is still clickbait. The US being the #1 producer of oil doesn’t say anything about usage. Example: a country could simultaneously be a low user while being a huge producer - Norway.

I understand your made up hypothetical example but it has no value.

Wouldn’t it be more worthwhile to deal with reality?

The US is by far the largest consumer of oil and we love large vehicles.

https://qz.com/1344537/by-2020-suvs-could-make-up-50-of-us-c...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#78

Post by [deleted] »

mikeash wrote: post #8
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

That’s not true. They produce more sulphur dioxide, a pollutant that cars don’t emit much of in general, and which the heavy fuel used by ships generates in abundance. Somehow the story morphed from “a few ships emit more of this specific pollutant than all cars” to “more pollution” to “more CO2.” The entire worldwide shipping industry accounts for about 3% of humanity’s CO2 emissions.

[deleted]

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#79

Post by jonwachob91 »

evolve2k wrote: post #61

This points out a new opportunity. Why stop at China for electric busses (yes they are probably manufacturing them locally)? Cities are seeming increasingly more able to be proactive than countries. Encourage local cities to one by one electrify the bus network and this effect goes global. It’s obvious tangible action that citizens can demand and mayors can visibly deliver. Game for those playing at home, do a search…

The City of Orlando has had electric buses since 2017[0]

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2017/08/17/orla...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#80

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

stevenjohns wrote: post #12
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't nuclear power be used to generate electricity on these tankers in the same way its used to power submarines?

Yes it can. Check out the Russian Sevmorput.[1] It is the only active nuclear powered merchant ship in the world.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevmorput

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