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China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

bloomberg.com

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Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#21

Post by cstejerean »

mikeash wrote: post #8
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

That’s not true. They produce more sulphur dioxide, a pollutant that cars don’t emit much of in general, and which the heavy fuel used by ships generates in abundance. Somehow the story morphed from “a few ships emit more of this specific pollutant than all cars” to “more pollution” to “more CO2.” The entire worldwide shipping industry accounts for about 3% of humanity’s CO2 emissions.

And how does that 3% compare to the total CO2 from personal vehicles?

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#22

Post by desdiv »

burlesona wrote: post #3
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

That’s surprising to me. Do you have any references for that? Why are the ships so emissive?

It's simply not true. It started out as a factoid, but got jumbled into nonsense by a game of telephone:

1. True: 16 of the world’s largest ships produce as much _sulfur_ pollution as all the world’s cars.[1]

2. False: "How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world", headline from Daily Mail.[2]

3. False: "world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined", from OP.

While SOx and NOx pollution is extremely bad, they're not as culpable in causing respiratory diseases and climate change, and that's why legislative action has been slow coming.

[1] https://www.lngtransfer.com/news/the-16-biggest-ships-produc...

[2] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1229857/How-...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#23

Post by austincheney »

mikeash wrote: post #8
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

That’s not true. They produce more sulphur dioxide, a pollutant that cars don’t emit much of in general, and which the heavy fuel used by ships generates in abundance. Somehow the story morphed from “a few ships emit more of this specific pollutant than all cars” to “more pollution” to “more CO2.” The entire worldwide shipping industry accounts for about 3% of humanity’s CO2 emissions.

> The entire worldwide shipping industry accounts for about 3% of humanity’s CO2 emissions.

To my knowledge personally owned vehicles account for a similar percentage of total CO2 output, so that number while small is a red herring. People tend to generate more CO2 per capita as a result of air conditioning than from the vehicles they drive.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#24

Post by nradov »

stevenjohns wrote: post #12
austincheney wrote: post #2

Then just imagine if shipping tankers became electrified. The world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles combined.

Forgive my ignorance, but couldn't nuclear power be used to generate electricity on these tankers in the same way its used to power submarines?

Nuclear power plants on land could be used to generate power for producing synthetic hydrocarbons, which would in turn be used for powering ships. But putting nuclear reactors on merchant ships is totally impractical for security reasons.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#26

Post by Razengan »

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room?

Curbing population growth.

We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire":

X Murder

X Rape

X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving

X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death

X In some countries: Being with whom you love

So why are we resisting laws against "Making babies whenever you want" and not even discussing them without annoyed dismissals and instant shutdowns?

Is it because the people who shape the zeitgeist — First world countries — have yet to experience the horrors of rampant overpopulation?

People who vehemently argue against population control, ought to own up to the fact that we should then guarantee access to food, shelter and healthcare for every new human.

You shouldn't expound one human right only to continue to prevent everyone from many other rights.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#27

Post by Someone1234 »

mikeash wrote: post #20
Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody sane would give civilians in a poorly regulated sector nuclear fuel and expect them to operate a generator safely. It is even debatable if the US using nuclear power on their subs/warships is wise. It is great for natural disasters relief (mobile power plant) but terrifying if the US ever loses one.

The US has lost several, as have the Soviets and Russians.

You're right[0]. Terrifying.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_navy#Accidents_involvi...

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#28

Post by lapnitnelav »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

Because it goes very much against the constant growth required by the economy?

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#29

Post by natch »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

Because it’s a delicate subject. Giving someone the power to decide who is and is not allowed/able/encouraged to have babies is scary stuff for many people.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#30

Post by forrestthewoods »

Razengan wrote: post #26

Excuse me for this tangent, but when it comes to environmental concerns, why do we still skirt around the largest elephant in the room? Curbing population growth. We have laws against almost every "natural human instinct/desire": X Murder X Rape X Theft, even if you're stealing food when you're starving X Taking shelter in property that you don't own, even if you were freezing to death X In some countries: Being with…

Limiting who is allowed to reproduce? I mean what could possibly go wrong!
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