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Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

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Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#301

Post by [deleted] »

SilasX wrote: post #275
umvi wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What an odd point of view. Homicides are down; should we loosen the laws? Sure, why not? Why does additional overhead added to systems always need to be permanent? It's like installing Norton Anti Virus and then never being able to uninstall it ever again. Sometimes I think it would be okay to say: "Wow, aviation has been safe for 20 years since 9/11, maybe locked cockpits and increased public awareness are good en…

Earlier you were saying that the optimal move would be for the union to dissolve, and now you're comparing that to loosening air regs after they turn out to have overcorrected. That's moving the goalposts. You should compare "dissolving the union" to "abolishing all air regs" or "easing up on union activism" to "loosening the more onerous regs".

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#302

Post by matthewowen »

chrisseaton wrote: post #177
barbecue_sauce wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it means that you wouldn't even be able to get a job at a closed shop unless you were already a member of the union.

That doesn't seem practically any different. I still have to support the union if I want to work.

If you want to work at a company there are lots of aspects of corporate culture and working environments that you have to accept if you want to work there. Presumably if you don't want to work in a union shop... you won't?

And to put another way: would it be reasonable for you to benefit from the work the union does for all employees without also contributing to that union?

All this is besides the point that requiring employees to join the union is a decision the _employer_ would have to make (although probably through union pressure).

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#303

Post by BrainInAJar »

root_axis wrote: post #211
tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

This is senior engineer privilege speaking. A union seems strictly worse when dozens of companies are falling over themselves to pay you in the 90th percentile income bracket.

The biggest lie capitalists ever told you was that unions were about money. They're about control.

How's your open plan office? Do you like it? Can you do anything about it? Unions can help.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#304

Post by nickpsecurity »

walshemj wrote: post #280
root_axis wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is senior engineer privilege speaking. A union seems strictly worse when dozens of companies are falling over themselves to pay you in the 90th percentile income bracket.

Have you been though a recession yet :-)

I had a union job for steady pay and great benefits while trying to do consulting on the side. I hoped to grow the business. Great Recession hit. Contracts dried up. Folks I lived with were laid off multiple times. Union contract was only reason I could keep us afloat. It didn't let them lay us off without paying for it, which they opted not to do.

So, yeah, what you said. :)

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#305

Post by fastball »

root_axis wrote: post #282
scrumbledober wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reason for any workforces at any of the companies I have worked for as a developer to unionize. In my short career before that, however, I thought it would be very helpful for the valet company I worked at to unionize.

I certainly have. They were mostly the places where if you weren't perceived as the type who is willing to stay till 8PM a few nights a week peppered with the occasional weekend PR, you were relegated to the "poor work ethic" caste. Unions aren't perfect, but they certainly stomp out this type of abuse and force the company to either hire more people or pay fairer wages.

You're a senior developer and you don't think you're getting paid a fair wage?

Ok...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#306

Post by eqdw »

navigatesol wrote: post #225
umvi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it's just a symptom of the Shirky Principle: "Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution." Even if the workplace is not adversarial, any union will try to preserve the conditions that necessitate its continued existence. No union ever said "Wow, this new CEO and management are super fair and reasonable. We are no longer necessary, let's dissolve and let them take the reigns."

> No union ever said "Wow, this new CEO and management are super fair and reasonable. We are no longer necessary, let's dissolve and let them take the reigns." What an odd point of view. Homicides are down; should we loosen the laws? If management are "fair and reasonable", what do they care if there's a union on premises? Everyone just goes about their business.

To be fair, I have seen tons of headlines to the effect of "crime is the lowest it's ever been in decades, so why are we still hiring so many police officers"

There is absolutely pressure to loosen the (enforcement of) laws when crime is down

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#307

Post by sokoloff »

geofft wrote: post #210
WillPostForFood wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do best when your colleagues do the best, for sure. Do you think the union is going to help or hurt when you have underperforming or disruptive colleagues?

There's a wide spectrum in "a union" just like in "management". I've had good management and bad management. There are good unions and bad unions. So, a priori, I don't have an expectation of whether "the union" - some arbitrarily picked union - will definitely help or hurt, any more than I have an expectation that arbitrary "management" will definitely help or hurt. But there are a few things: - Just like I evaluate…

> I have much more of a democratic voice in my union's priorities than my management's priorities.

In my experience, the best ideas compete easily to change management priorities. I prefer that system over a straight democracy for changing management priorities.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#308

Post by goldcd »

streblo wrote: post #240
navigatesol wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No union ever said "Wow, this new CEO and management are super fair and reasonable. We are no longer necessary, let's dissolve and let them take the reigns." What an odd point of view. Homicides are down; should we loosen the laws? If management are "fair and reasonable", what do they care if there's a union on premises? Everyone just goes about their business.

> If management are "fair and reasonable", what do they care if there's a union on premises? Everyone just goes about their business. Do you realize that you have to pay monthly dues to a union? If I were paying union dues and the union didn't serve a purpose (due to fair and reasonable management practices), then I wouldn't want to pay those dues anymore. Everyone just going about their business still involves me pa…

But the point of paying these dues to have a point. For example, strike-pay. If your employees are living pay-cheque to pay-cheque, then your risk of them all striking as a whole is minimal, whatever you do. If you know they could all subsist for say 6-months (housing and food covered by strike-pay), then you would be more cautious in your actions. My take is that there are stupid extremes on both sides of the unionization debate. But, as a concept, it provides a nice stabilizing counter-balance. If employees are happy, you don't notice the union. If they're unhappy, then you'll hear from the union. If the company is fundamentally unviable then really unionization is moot as you're all going down together.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#309

Post by gamblor956 »

adamrezich wrote: post #286
gamblor956 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because your friend didn't see the benefits doesn't mean he didn't have them. Kroger union members have health care benefits, dental and vision benefits, and other benefits that they wouldn't normally get with a minimum wage job. Protections against forced and unpaid overtime (while allowing for voluntary, paid overtime). Hell, the fact he got paid minimum wage in the first place--since unions were, and still ar…

None of these things applied to him. He did not get medical or dental benefits because he was employed there for less time than their minimum to begin receiving benefits (or maybe he had just qualified when his teaching license finally got through? I can't remember now). Membership was mandatory for employment, so anyone who works there part-time for less than whatever the minimum amount of time to receive benefits i…

Would be very interested in knowing what Walmart locations those were since Walmart's strictly-enforced corporate policy until about 2 years ago was that they would not pay above minimum wage. Shortly after the Trump tax bill, they announced fairly hefty pay wages nationwide, putting their front-line employees above minimum wage for the first time in company history. It was huge news since Trump tried to use it as an example of his tax bill working...

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#310

Post by [deleted] »

lordnacho wrote: post #277
adamrezich wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so how did the Kroger union help my friend at all? Once again, membership was mandatory for employment, and a cut of each of his minimum-wage paychecks went to it, with him seeing zero benefit in exchange. Is there some hidden benefit both he and I (being his roommate at the time) just weren't seeing? (Trust me, we looked.)

This is a bit like being forced to buy health insurance and complaining when you don't get ill. I'm not saying the deal was reasonable for your friend, I don't know the details or his life situation. But like security guards or insurers, unions aren't always in "active" mode.

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