Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 724 posts

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#211

Post by root_axis »

tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

This is senior engineer privilege speaking. A union seems strictly worse when dozens of companies are falling over themselves to pay you in the 90th percentile income bracket.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#212

Post by 49531 »

tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

That weird "us vs them" sort of thing is called class consciousness. The adversarial nature exists whether you're conscious of it or not.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#213

Post by cgag »

adamrezich wrote: post #202
normal_man wrote: post #188

The anti-union rhetoric in America is staggering. You like weekends? Then stop ragging on unions.

I have a friend who worked at a grocery store for a few months while waiting for his teacher's certification to get processed and sent to the state he'd moved to. It was a minimum-wage job, yet mandatory union membership at this grocery store chain meant that a cut of each of his minimum-wage paychecks was taken from him without anything he could do about it. The idea that unions are inherently, universally good is j…

we all just join hands and free money and time rain down upon us, how is that not universally good?

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#214

Post by circa »

edoo wrote: post #153

I've been in a union before. The work ethic wasn't good. They had seminars on how to work less and push back against complaints. They directed the members to engage in behavior that was best for the union while bad for the workers and the company. The union itself is a big business, what would they think of unionizing the union? Unions allow substandard work for equal pay. That tends to hold back the major opportunit…

This has been my experience too. I think they were good a long time ago when jobs needed to be created but there is not much use for them now.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#215

Post by mlillie »

StudentStuff wrote: post #146
mlillie wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you qualify US style vs non-US style unions? The prevalence of business unionism here?

Most US unions have been heavily neutered and de-politicized, and rarely have the ability to force management to change course. Outside the US, its not uncommon for unions to own a good share of the company, holding board seats which let it affect who manages the company, and in some cases with the business becoming entirely worker owned.

This is what I was thinking. I know a big complaint especially of the larger US unions is that they just end up mirroring the bureaucracy & power structure of management anyway

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#216

Post by umvi »

navigatesol wrote: post #189
tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

> It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? Have you considered that the adversarial workplace is the reason for unionizing in the first place?

Or it's just a symptom of the Shirky Principle:

"Institutions will try to preserve the problem to which they are the solution."

Even if the workplace is not adversarial, any union will try to preserve the conditions that necessitate its continued existence.

No union ever said "Wow, this new CEO and management are super fair and reasonable. We are no longer necessary, let's dissolve and let them take the reigns."

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#217

Post by simmanian »

bwestergard wrote: post #9

This is fantastic news. I'm one of the software engineers who was fired for organizing a union at a SF/DC based startup last year. The National Labor Relations Board found in our favor and we won a large cash settlement. But what we wanted was a union. Seeing others pick up the torch is extremely gratifying. Below are some links to news coverage of our case. https://gist.github.com/bwestergard/a77744dc6f3095fd3fb769d…

How did you get started? Did you just google "how to organize a union" and go from there?

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#219

Post by 49531 »

edoo wrote: post #153

I've been in a union before. The work ethic wasn't good. They had seminars on how to work less and push back against complaints. They directed the members to engage in behavior that was best for the union while bad for the workers and the company. The union itself is a big business, what would they think of unionizing the union? Unions allow substandard work for equal pay. That tends to hold back the major opportunit…

> what would they think of unionizing the union

Unions in the US are democratic institutions, so if there is a problem with your union you can change things.

Re: Kickstarter’s staff is unionizing

#220

Post by moate »

tomohawk wrote: post #169

I wish them well, but having family members and friends work in unionized workplaces, it's not something I would ever do. It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them" sort of thing whenever I talk to them about where they work. Why would I ever work some place where things are so adversarial? You also end up with this 3rd party involved in everything, creating all kinds of "rules" to make things "fair". Want to…

>>It always seems to degenerate into an "us vs them"

Because it literally is after companies become a certain size. You have a small start up of 3-10 people, you might all be friends and working together for the betterment of the whole. You get past that size, and hierarchy happens. And then it is labor vs management. This doesn't mean that the goals can't align, but there are key points where they don't.

You think you're special and better than someone else, so you should get to pick whatever time off you want. The union doesn't care and has to create some version of fair because it represents several other people. If you work in a union company without being a part of the union, you're actively undermining the union's ability to assist it's members, and being called a scab is the price you have to pay.

You don't seem to understand what the value is that a union provides. They're not perfect. There will again be places where the needs/goals of a single individual will be at odds with the needs/goals of the union. This doesn't make them a net negative.

You keep believing in your exceptional nature, that you're better than average and therefor would be dragged down by the (hypothetical) union. Statistically speaking, you're probably wrong.

Post reply on HN