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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#231

Post by overthemoon »

cageface wrote: post #227
overthemoon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still framed as a consumer problem rather than a regulatory problem--eat fish or don't, market participation isn't going to get you nearly as far as regulation.

Regulation is slow and difficult, particularly when there are industries with a lot of lobbying money ready to fight it. I'm all for regulation but it will be too late if we don't do anything in the meantime.

Certainly difficult, but would it be easier or harder than trying to organize a sustained global boycott of industrial fishing? Not trying to be cute, seriously--regulation would also have to be on a global scale for it to matter. I agree, something needs to be done now.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#232

Post by makerofspoons »

malvosenior wrote: post #228
makerofspoons wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between the cancer risk posed by red and processed meat as well as the environmental damage, I expect meat consumption to go the way of smoking within a generation.

The vast majority of people in the US eat meat regularly and feed it to their children. There is no way this is going to stop in one generation. There are also plenty of cultures that have meat as their staple. Can you imagine telling Mexicans to eat vegetarian tacos for instance? That simply will never happen, it's too ingrained into culture (and too delicious!).

Smoking cigarettes and cigars was also once considered a delicious and ingrained part of many cultures. It is now clear that processed and red meats cause bowel cancer, and the environmental impacts they pose are also becoming more and more clear. Just like smoking ended in a generation I can definitely see people rejecting these products in the near future. Cultures change all the time.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#233

Post by dec0dedab0de »

cageface wrote: post #227
overthemoon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still framed as a consumer problem rather than a regulatory problem--eat fish or don't, market participation isn't going to get you nearly as far as regulation.

Regulation is slow and difficult, particularly when there are industries with a lot of lobbying money ready to fight it. I'm all for regulation but it will be too late if we don't do anything in the meantime.

It seems like it would be easy enough to ban plastic fishing equipment. Couldn't they make the nets out of hemp, or something else biodegradable?

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#234

Post by tomweingarten »

overthemoon wrote: post #226
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

This is still framed as a consumer problem rather than a regulatory problem--eat fish or don't, market participation isn't going to get you nearly as far as regulation.

Or do both, it's harder for fishing companies to lobby governments if we stop giving them our money.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#235

Post by lm28469 »

seanwilson wrote: post #224

For people saying vegan diets might not be healthy it's trivial to find information online about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_nutrition > The American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly known as the American Dietetic Association), Dietitians of Canada and the British Dietetic Association[6] state that well-planned vegan diets can meet all human nutrient requirements and are appropriate for all…

Our bodies evolved to make us omnivores, I don't see why we should restrain ourselves to such extent.

What we need is moderation and sustainable means of production. This is clearly misaligned with our current lifestyles though. [0]

In a few generations we went from "meat/fish is a once in a week delicacy" to "cheap meat at every single meal" (see the so called "meat lovers" thinking they're entitled to 2 pounds of bacon a day).

Talk to your grandparents or great grandparents if they're still alive, they solved sustainability with low tech and no money, at the cost of convenience and comfort obviously, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[0] https://www.nrdc.org/resources/wasted-how-america-losing-40-...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#236

Post by LMYahooTFY »

seanwilson wrote: post #224

For people saying vegan diets might not be healthy it's trivial to find information online about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_nutrition > The American Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly known as the American Dietetic Association), Dietitians of Canada and the British Dietetic Association[6] state that well-planned vegan diets can meet all human nutrient requirements and are appropriate for all…

None of this means a vegan diet might not be healthy for _some subset_ of the population.

No one on earth has ANY diet that can be said to be "healthy" for anyone and everyone.

Putting allergens, auto-immune disorders, GI disorders, etc. aside, people have been shown to process various energy sources with varying degrees of consequences.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#237

Post by malvosenior »

makerofspoons wrote: post #232
malvosenior wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people in the US eat meat regularly and feed it to their children. There is no way this is going to stop in one generation. There are also plenty of cultures that have meat as their staple. Can you imagine telling Mexicans to eat vegetarian tacos for instance? That simply will never happen, it's too ingrained into culture (and too delicious!).

Smoking cigarettes and cigars was also once considered a delicious and ingrained part of many cultures. It is now clear that processed and red meats cause bowel cancer, and the environmental impacts they pose are also becoming more and more clear. Just like smoking ended in a generation I can definitely see people rejecting these products in the near future. Cultures change all the time.

I don’t agree. Diet is an integral part of one’s culture. Smoking cigarettes is a needless vice mostly pushed by marketing. I think you’re greatly underestimating how important food is to some cultures. I suggest you have a conversation about this with someone from a meat eating culture. It will give you more perspective on the staying power of meat.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#238

Post by rootusrootus »

hjek wrote: post #173
wallace_f wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not answer the question, but the fact that even ruminant offspring rely on milk to supplement their nutrition I think should at least create skepticism

Vegans aren't against breastfeeding.

And animals frequently eat other animals.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#239

Post by koheripbal »

bleigh0 wrote: post #204
verasio wrote: post #99

China. Indonesia. Philippines. Vietnam. Sri Lanka. This chart says it all: https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting... They are everyone's oceans and these countries are disproportionately choking them with plastic. Blame must be focused on them for meaningful change to happen. I'm a foreigner living in one of these countries and it is shocking how absolutely careless and ignorant the majority of…

So called "developed" countries were once similarly careless with their waste. And their developed status was a result of such carelessness and the free expansion of their industries. It seems slightly unfair to expect developing countries to achieve a similar level of development via a sustainable methodology immediately, when that has not been the path for the richest countries in the world. (Given that developing…

The countries listed above are far more developed than you are giving them credit for. They absolutely have the ability to recycle.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#240

Post by rootusrootus »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #215
malvosenior wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people (myself included) who actually enjoy real meat and would never switch, so no it won't be happening any time soon or at all really.

Eventually that may be a socially untenable practice, what with meat consumption being linked to so many ethical and environmental issues.

Have you missed the incredible amount of pushback in the recent past against identity politics? You may get half the population to decide it is socially untenable, but the other half will double down in response.
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