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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#171

Post by monk_e_boy »

cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

You only need to walk along any beach in the UK. There are little 10cm to 2m lengths of rope mixed in with the seaweed all along the beach. We have local beach cleans every weekend and most locals pick up litter when we see it.

But it is futile.

Next high tide and more washes in. It's all along the coast. Every tiny bay, every rocky outcrop, the sea floor, in the waves, tangled in seaweed out to sea.

It's crazy. Madness. And more boats go out and more nets are produced and more dolphins wash up dead and more seals wash up dead and more birds wash up dead.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#172

Post by dsfyu404ed »

mcv wrote: post #149
enkid wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic and sustainable are not the same thing.

That's why I mention them both. I'm generally fine with anything that has animals outside rather than locked up in a tiny cage, but I prefer meat grown locally in a field that's not certified over meat that's technically certified but shipped from the other side of the world.

As much as I'd love to brain the next deer that's eating under my apple tree I'm also aware that that deer might have been stuffing its face at god knows what dumpster or drinking from the river downstream of town (which has a several hundred year manufacturing history so I wouldn't drink the river water).

Farming animals for meat has its problems but it does impose much stricter controls on the inputs. No farmer raising livestock for human consumption is feeding their animals contaminated food and water if there are other options available. If DuPont is upstream of your farm you're probably SOL but that's the exception not the rule.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#173

Post by hjek »

wallace_f wrote: post #122
Yajirobe wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for all stages of life Even for babies?

This does not answer the question, but the fact that even ruminant offspring rely on milk to supplement their nutrition I think should at least create skepticism

Vegans aren't against breastfeeding.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#174

Post by naasking »

Lewton wrote: post #84
xondono wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to start the flame war, but this: >We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy Is still heavily disputed in nutrition circles.

Can you link to any material? I really don’t think any nutritional scientist would claim it’s impossible to be healthy as a vegetarian. Whether it’s easier with meat or feasible for all people is something else

> I really don’t think any nutritional scientist would claim it’s impossible to be healthy as a vegetarian.

It is impossible for some people. Nutrition claims should always be taken with a grain of salt. For instance, the advice surrounding cholesterol over the past 30 years.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#175

Post by naasking »

close04 wrote: post #131
cageface wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4.5 million Jains in India would be happy to discuss this issue, just for starters. The world is full of healthy vegans and vegetarians.

You are omitting the fact that genetics plays a huge role in the success and efficiency of your diet. More than a third of East Asians have a deficiency in one of the enzymes involved in the breakdown of alcohol (aldehyde dehydrogenase). They cannot properly metabolize it. Inuits have mutations in genes that code for enzymes that desaturate carbon-carbon bonds in fatty acids. This means they can handle diets that are…

> You are omitting the fact that genetics plays a huge role in the success and efficiency of your diet.

Not just genetics, but a lifetime of bacterial and other environmental exposures that defines your microbiome, which is obviously essential to processing all food. An environment with a long history of vegetarians will be well suited to vegetarians. Not so much if that hasn't been the case.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#176

Post by the_gastropod »

scotty79 wrote: post #158
isolli wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for 7, yet I started eating meat and fish about a year ago. Here are my thoughts: - I started eating animal products again for health reason; I believe many people can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but I couldn't. It makes me unhappy, but there I am. - Similarly vegetarian and vegan for a long time, my wife started craving animal products the minute she got pregnant. And a…

I don't mind vegetarian. I rarely eat meat and never crave for it. However vegan just sounds horrible. Eggs and cheeses are incredible, milk, fish, prawns. Cutting them out feels like cutting half of the nutrients out of my diet. I wouldn't risk it unless I had very extensive knowledge and dedication to human dietary requirements and what which plants can provide, which I don't have and won't have.

> Cutting them out feels like cutting half of the nutrients out of my diet. I wouldn't risk it unless I had very extensive knowledge and dedication to human dietary requirements and what which plants can provide, which I don't have and won't have.

Yea, this is pretty common (as many comments above yours will also attest to). “Vegetarian” and “vegan” are awful diet plans, in that they only tell you what not to eat. People coming from a standard diets based around meat/cheese/eggs undoubtedly have a hard time, and often become sick.

Fortunately, you don’t need that much knowledge. This stuff has been figured out by dietitians. If you’re interested in what a plant-based diet could look like, check out nutritionfacts.org. Dr. Greger has a “daily dozen” checklist that will pretty easily get you to a very healthy diet. It includes: cruciferous vegetables, other vegetables, whole grains, flax, berries, other fruits, spices (turmeric, cinnamon, garlic, etc), greens, nuts/seeds, beans/legumes, water, and exercise. If you consistently knock all 12 of those out, you’ll be healthy as a horse.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#177

Post by Nasrudith »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #170
ehnto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

a lot of the fish products I buy mention that it's "wild caught". do people really have a problem with eating farmed fish? I wish "farm-raised" were a label, so I can support more sustainably sourced fish.

The reason for that is the practices of fish farming has a reputation of being less than environmentally friendly in themselves, often and frequently less than clean. Although one of the cleanest ones (isolated GMO fast-growing salmon) faced the biggest pushback about issues they took pains to prevent (dessert located ponds are extra hard to escape from without someone delivers releasing live specimens) because people are stupid. All while complaining about water usage.

I suspect "premium" practices and standards might help here

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#178

Post by naasking »

cageface wrote: post #154
z3t4 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to account the supplements needed for a pure vegan diet. The best option is probably to buy the fish fresh from your local fisherman.

The only supplement needed on a vegan diet is minimal amounts of b12, and that’s only necessary because sanitation kills the bacteria that produce it. The environmental footprint of a vegan diet is way lower than even that of a pescavore.

No one's disputing the footprint, they're disputing how feasible it is for all or even most people. Vegetarianism requires much more understanding and planning to ensure you ingest sufficient proper macro and micronutrients.

Edit: and you need look no further than Harvard's explanation of how to become a vegetarian and choose your foods to ensure a healthy diet: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/becoming-a-ve...

How many ordinary people do you think have sufficient understanding of these factors to become healthy vegetarians?

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#179

Post by maxwell »

mcv wrote: post #136
kmarc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised how much meat people smilingly throw away in NewZealand - when I was asked to "just throw it in the trashcan" around 30dkgs of perfectly delicious and cooked meal I simply refused and walked away. My muscles were literally blocked to make that movement of my arms, swiping a plate of meal to the bin. Around ~25 other people did not have any problems with it, so I guess the problem is in me.

Not just in New Zealand. It hurts me when I see people not finishing their plate. I will eat myself sick before I will throw away food. Sadly, this has developed into a bit of a weight problem. And then there's restaurants and supermarkets which throw away enormous amounts of unsold food. We should buy and cook less food, or maybe have a quick way of sharing left-over food with people who are hungry.

Obesity is now a bigger problem worldwide than hunger.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#180

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

saagarjha wrote: post #63
cageface wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

As much as it would be great to get everyone on plant-based diets, it's not going to happen anytime soon. So I guess, for the environment at least, fish is the best we can do until then?

I think it will happen sooner than you think, with companies like Beyond Meat working hard to ultimately make plant protein "meat" both highly palatable and less expensive.
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