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Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

bbc.com

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Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#71

Post by noir_lord »

RandomTisk wrote: post #67
purpleidea wrote: post #40

I'm a physiologist, and definitely NOT an anti-vaxxer. Two points: 1) What is the specific list of immunizations that are being mandated? 2) If immunizations are to be mandated, great, however the companies that produce them must also be mandated to be transparent in their research and development. For example, they must be required by law to publish all studies on drug safety-- both positive, and negative results. T…

Me either, but I've always wondered: 3) What danger do un-vaccinated children pose to vaccinated ones?

They don't, un-vaccinated children pose a danger to children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons.

It's herd immunity but it only works if the vaccination rate is sufficiently high.

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#72

Post by tehlike »

RandomTisk wrote: post #67
purpleidea wrote: post #40

I'm a physiologist, and definitely NOT an anti-vaxxer. Two points: 1) What is the specific list of immunizations that are being mandated? 2) If immunizations are to be mandated, great, however the companies that produce them must also be mandated to be transparent in their research and development. For example, they must be required by law to publish all studies on drug safety-- both positive, and negative results. T…

Me either, but I've always wondered: 3) What danger do un-vaccinated children pose to vaccinated ones?

The problem is some people with weak immune system cannot be vaccinated. So it's also for protection of these people.

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#73

Post by SamBam »

RandomTisk wrote: post #67
purpleidea wrote: post #40

I'm a physiologist, and definitely NOT an anti-vaxxer. Two points: 1) What is the specific list of immunizations that are being mandated? 2) If immunizations are to be mandated, great, however the companies that produce them must also be mandated to be transparent in their research and development. For example, they must be required by law to publish all studies on drug safety-- both positive, and negative results. T…

Me either, but I've always wondered: 3) What danger do un-vaccinated children pose to vaccinated ones?

The generally pose the most danger to those either too young to be vaccinated, or who can't be vaccinated due to legitimate medical concerns. This is not uncommon, and such children rely on the herd immunity of their peers.

Further, as few vaccines are 100% effective, the herd immunity also limits the exposure of viruses to those for whom the vaccine was ineffective.

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#75

Post by magduf »

pulse7 wrote: post #19

They will have problems with United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "26. The Right to Education. Education is a right. Primary school should be free. ..." Since primary school is a human right, nobody can ban you from primary school!

I don't see how this should require any country to allow dangerous children into schools.

Suppose some parents insist on sending their kid to school with a gun. Should the government be required to accommodate this kid? Obviously not: the government is perfectly within its rights to set limits on things, and not allow kids to attend who are a clear and present danger to the other children. Kids carrying guns are obviously a danger, so they're not allowed. Kids who are unvaccinated are also a danger, so they shouldn't be allowed, though with a high enough vaccination rate we can make an exception for someone with a valid medical reason.

The government isn't preventing these kids from attending school; the parents are.

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#76

Post by zug_zug »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #66
zug_zug wrote: post #45

I find it interesting and also confusing how invested random people on the internet are about the outcome of vaccination (which could theoretically cause an issue for a small percentage of the population), as opposed to say climate-denial (which will undisputably cause a much bigger issue for the entire population)

Where most people who comment on HN live, deaths from climate change are a future possibility. Deaths from vaccine preventable illnesses are happening right now. Also, solving climate change is a massive undertaking. Vaccines are a solved problem.

[flagged]

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#77

Post by tw04 »

purpleidea wrote: post #40

I'm a physiologist, and definitely NOT an anti-vaxxer. Two points: 1) What is the specific list of immunizations that are being mandated? 2) If immunizations are to be mandated, great, however the companies that produce them must also be mandated to be transparent in their research and development. For example, they must be required by law to publish all studies on drug safety-- both positive, and negative results. T…

>For example, they must be required by law to publish all studies on drug safety-- both positive, and negative results. That's currently not required, they're allowed to cherry-pick results!

Why? The alternatives in pretty much all cases are death. Which side effect is better than your child being dead? Or mine for that matter because the collective you (not you personally) decided that risking polio was better than the 1 in 10 billion chance you had an adverse reaction to a vaccine.

We've literally eradicated diseases that could have wiped out the entire human race and now we've got idiots trying their hardest to bring them back.

If parents want to have the "choice" to vaccinate their children, then they should also be held legally liable for ANYONE that gets sick as a result of that choice. Whether it's their own kid or an outbreak in the area they live.

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#79

Post by leftyted »

frostburg wrote: post #43
everdev wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think HN is the place for judging people you've probably never met.

Son of teachers. I'm familiar with the issue at hand (there is basically no reason to homeschool in Italy unless you are in a cult or neglect your child heavily).

This is the US, but an op-ed from a favorite novelist of mine in favor of homeschooling: https://www.salon.com/1997/10/01/01school/

I was not homeschooled, but I hated school (even though it was a good public school) and if people want to educate their own children, they should be able to.

Re: Italy bans unvaccinated children from school

#80

Post by RandomTisk »

SamBam wrote: post #73
RandomTisk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me either, but I've always wondered: 3) What danger do un-vaccinated children pose to vaccinated ones?

The generally pose the most danger to those either too young to be vaccinated, or who can't be vaccinated due to legitimate medical concerns. This is not uncommon, and such children rely on the herd immunity of their peers. Further, as few vaccines are 100% effective, the herd immunity also limits the exposure of viruses to those for whom the vaccine was ineffective.

Makes sense, thanks.
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