To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars • Hacker News Board

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#51

Post by benj111 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #37

benj111 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its a hatred of cars. Its just cars are so entrenched in western cultures that its easy to overlook all the problems. All those things you cited are all exacerbated by the car. Electric cars will solve the pollution issue, but they are still cars, with all the issues they bring.

> I don't think its a hatred of cars. Its just cars are so entrenched in western cultures that its easy to overlook all the problems. They are entrenched for a reason: because they are extremely useful. Without cars and the individual transport methods they superseded, many of our cities wouldn't even exist. What this and many other articles do, is to decide first what the problem should be and then build a case arou…

I don't think there are any cities that wouldn't exist without cars, the shape of cities would change yes, but that is one of the problems of cars.

Cars are useful yes, doesn't mean we shouldn't question them. Just like we should question trains, bikes etc.

Re putting cars underground. Yes you could, are you going to support the taxes to pay for it?

"What this and many other articles do, is to decide first what the problem should be and then build a case around it to show it in a bad light."

Why don't you decide on the merits of the argument rather than perceived motivation?

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#52

Post by buro9 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:46 PM UTC

LoSboccacc wrote: post #42

dukoid wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copenhagen is amazing in this regard. I'd recommend to just watch anything from Jan Gehl on Youtube if you're interested in this topic: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jan+gehl

population: 600k not exactly a challenge now is it. the dynamics for cities with 6 million inhabitants are on a whole different scale because while building can pack people in three dimension transit has relatively few 2d planes to be built upon.

San Francisco at 884k isn't that far ahead of Copenhagen at 602k, but yet the difference is very clear.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#53

Post by shawabawa3 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

adwww wrote: post #41

bitxbit wrote: post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

It's not happening though. My parents live in a beautiful part of the rural UK and have super-fast fibre to the premises internet, next day Amazon prime available, online food shopping from 4 or so supermarkets locally, etc. Basically everything you'd think you'd need to live away from the city, but still the area is depopulating rapidly. Younger people don't want a life of car dependancy and social isolation.

I think there's a chance that remote working might really take off. From a cost-saving perspective it makes so much sense - we already went from offices -> open plan, if we go from open plan -> remote being the new norm, suddenly there will be jobs everywhere, and that will change everything

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#54

Post by lazyjones » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

ahoy wrote: post #47

lazyjones wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The alternative is the status quo of the past half century There are many alternatives. You can even go live in car-free areas right now and have been able to do so for decades, e.g. the island Hydra in Greece. > Defeating the status quo always takes a motivated group, and hatred of cars is a good motivator as any. I happen to like the status quo and don't want a loud minority to "defeat" it based on their hatred.

Ah, "you could move to Greece." Practical suggestion for improving the life of the average Atlanta resident!

More practical than changing Atlanta to some imaginary car-free utopia. But perhaps the advantages of living in a car-free city aren't that great after all?

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#55

Post by jak92 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

My City is double decking highways all the while building zero new rail and or bike lanes.

They are doubling down on stupid.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#56

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

wefarrell wrote: post #48

bitxbit wrote: post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

I thought the same thing when the internet was emerging but the opposite happened. The problem with your prediction is that it will also become easier to live in cities. AV's will reduce the need in cities for land allocated to parking. I can see this first hand in my neighborhood in Queens. It's becoming far easier to live without a car and population density is increasing at a rapid rate.

[deleted]

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#57

Post by geocar » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

adwww wrote: post #41

bitxbit wrote: post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

It's not happening though. My parents live in a beautiful part of the rural UK and have super-fast fibre to the premises internet, next day Amazon prime available, online food shopping from 4 or so supermarkets locally, etc. Basically everything you'd think you'd need to live away from the city, but still the area is depopulating rapidly. Younger people don't want a life of car dependancy and social isolation.

If you don't mind: Which part of the rural UK is this?

I live in London and have pants for Internet (oversubscribed FTTC).

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#58

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #54

ahoy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, "you could move to Greece." Practical suggestion for improving the life of the average Atlanta resident!

More practical than changing Atlanta to some imaginary car-free utopia. But perhaps the advantages of living in a car-free city aren't that great after all?

Or the pros/cons don't stack up to a net difference that is big enough to be worth relocating over.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#59

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

adwww wrote: post #41

bitxbit wrote: post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

It's not happening though. My parents live in a beautiful part of the rural UK and have super-fast fibre to the premises internet, next day Amazon prime available, online food shopping from 4 or so supermarkets locally, etc. Basically everything you'd think you'd need to live away from the city, but still the area is depopulating rapidly. Younger people don't want a life of car dependancy and social isolation.

> Younger people don't want a life of car dependency and social isolation.

When I moved from my families acreage that was 10 minutes out of town it wasn't because of social isolation or car dependence - it was because I couldn't get an post-secondary education in my community. Even if I hadn't gone for an education, there was a ton more employment opportunities in the urban centre. I stayed in the city because "junior software developer" is a super hard sell in a town of 2,500. Now that I've more experience I could probably swing the "work remote" thing, but it just wasn't an option starting my career.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#60

Post by makerofspoons » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

If our species is to survive this century we have to get out of our cars. There is no way to sustainably build billions of electric cars- we need to consider that our existing ICE fleet needs to simply be retired and not replaced. Cars are one of the ultimate symbols of the consumption that needs to end if we are to address climate change. Between the asphalt and concrete needed to build infrastructure for them to the plastics, rubber, and metals used to manufacture them cars are rolling ecological disasters.