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To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#41

Post by adwww »

bitxbit wrote: post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

It's not happening though.

My parents live in a beautiful part of the rural UK and have super-fast fibre to the premises internet, next day Amazon prime available, online food shopping from 4 or so supermarkets locally, etc.

Basically everything you'd think you'd need to live away from the city, but still the area is depopulating rapidly.

Younger people don't want a life of car dependancy and social isolation.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#42

Post by LoSboccacc »

dukoid wrote: post #3
Tepix wrote: post #2

Not exactly rocket science. Many cities around the world have figured it out already. To me it seems that the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. I remember reading "Das neue Universum"² in the early 80s where they proposed large skyscrapers connected by tubes. No cars in sight. Oh and don't miss "Das Neue Universum Volume 84 (1967)": http://klausbuergle.de/buergle_verkehr1.htm - Click on…

Copenhagen is amazing in this regard. I'd recommend to just watch anything from Jan Gehl on Youtube if you're interested in this topic: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jan+gehl

population: 600k

not exactly a challenge now is it. the dynamics for cities with 6 million inhabitants are on a whole different scale because while building can pack people in three dimension transit has relatively few 2d planes to be built upon.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#43

Post by ahoy »

Shivetya wrote: post #40

Cars are not the cause of the issue with cities, cars are symptom of bad zoning and regulation which more times than not prevents owners of property from doing what they want. when every new building requires effectively bring special interest groups, politicians, regulatory boards, and unions, their due is it a surprise cities are not getting better. they are serving a politically connected elite, not the people who…

I'd like to offer the argument that automakers/sellers are a "special interest group" who has had an outsized impact on the shape of american cities for the past century.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#44

Post by njepa »

crispyambulance wrote: post #21
RickJWagner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe there is a nefarious scheme in play. People who live in cities don't need cars. People who live outside cities still need cars. The manufacturers try to fill that need. The manufacturers, sellers, etc. make the economy go 'round. It will all change if/when economic forces bring it about. Directly forcing it through politics probably isn't the right approach.

> I don't believe there is a nefarious scheme in play. I don't either but I do see it a sad lack of imagination and resignation to out-of-date mythologies about individualism. There's no defensible reason why work-home-school-retail structures rural places can't nucleate closer together into walkable "main street" towns. Much of the design of fly-over states is dictated by developers. It starts when a farmer who want…

> People then buy into to the facade of rural living but then end up driving 10's of miles for each and every errand and activity. They even take vacations in Europe and marvel at how delightful it is to sit in a town square and be able to walk to everything.

Most of Europe hasn't been built like this for many decades, and have been going the other way as well. You won't find many new developments in this spirit, and what already exists often isn't accessible. Being able to sit in a town square is vacation for a lot of people in Europe as well, especially if you haven't been grandfathered in.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#45

Post by knowuh »

Shivetya wrote: post #40

Cars are not the cause of the issue with cities, cars are symptom of bad zoning and regulation which more times than not prevents owners of property from doing what they want. when every new building requires effectively bring special interest groups, politicians, regulatory boards, and unions, their due is it a surprise cities are not getting better. they are serving a politically connected elite, not the people who…

Why is this the top comment? It hasn't been edited. I can't even decipher it.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#46

Post by bpyne »

mtberatwork wrote: post #9
Tepix wrote: post #2

Not exactly rocket science. Many cities around the world have figured it out already. To me it seems that the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. I remember reading "Das neue Universum"² in the early 80s where they proposed large skyscrapers connected by tubes. No cars in sight. Oh and don't miss "Das Neue Universum Volume 84 (1967)": http://klausbuergle.de/buergle_verkehr1.htm - Click on…

> the US went to the other extreme and is only slowly turning around. US car manufacturers are doubling down on large trucks and SUVs and the current administration continues to thwart progress on tackling climate change and other societal concerns. I would say the US, at least on a macro level, is still on the "other extreme" path.

I'm curious to see how it plays out with the 20-somethings in the US. They've been brought up on more civic-mindedness and their trend is back to urban areas for living. They'll be a better bellweather.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#47

Post by ahoy »

lazyjones wrote: post #39
helen___keller wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Building a "feel good" fantasy around the hatred of cars isn't going to improve anything The alternative is the status quo of the past half century where we pay lip service to city livability then expand our automobile-dependent suburban sprawl outward while adding one bus line that runs once an hour until it's cut for low ridership Defeating the status quo always takes a motivated group, and hatred of cars is a go…

> The alternative is the status quo of the past half century There are many alternatives. You can even go live in car-free areas right now and have been able to do so for decades, e.g. the island Hydra in Greece. > Defeating the status quo always takes a motivated group, and hatred of cars is a good motivator as any. I happen to like the status quo and don't want a loud minority to "defeat" it based on their hatred.

Ah, "you could move to Greece." Practical suggestion for improving the life of the average Atlanta resident!

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#48

Post by wefarrell »

bitxbit wrote: post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

I thought the same thing when the internet was emerging but the opposite happened.

The problem with your prediction is that it will also become easier to live in cities. AV's will reduce the need in cities for land allocated to parking. I can see this first hand in my neighborhood in Queens. It's becoming far easier to live without a car and population density is increasing at a rapid rate.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#49

Post by LoSboccacc »

benj111 wrote: post #28
lazyjones wrote: post #24

Improving life in cities is a matter of fixing existing problems, like poor public transport and pollution from combustion engines and heating. Building a "feel good" fantasy around the hatred of cars isn't going to improve anything, it'll just replace the current best choice for individual transport with something inferior, as well as destroy the economy (which depends on roads for logistics and public services).

I don't think its a hatred of cars. Its just cars are so entrenched in western cultures that its easy to overlook all the problems. All those things you cited are all exacerbated by the car. Electric cars will solve the pollution issue, but they are still cars, with all the issues they bring.

those utopia still haven't solve some basic problems: if one looks for work accessible to his housing without cars and relying only to transit, he'll be disadvantaged on the marked compared to one with a car that can choose his working environment freely.

"but one can just relocate near the new job!" - yes, if you are a single income family, otherwise the partner has to change job too (and even then changing school to children mid year isn't optimal)

and the dual applies: want to grow your family? you cannot switch home freely, you're limited to pick those on some transit to both the couple existing jobs.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#50

Post by avip »

inapis wrote: post #7
naravara wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cities in the OECD maybe. Lots of cities in Africa and Asia are going with the American model of car dependent sprawl and it’s completely untenable. My childhood home of Bangalore has become a nightmare.

India still invests a lot in public infrastructure. Bangalore is an exception. Mumbai, Delhi, Jaipur etc have invested a lot in urban infra especially the metro. Bangalore was just not ready for the influx of IT companies and is having serious trouble keeping up. But I love the airport buses though. Given India’s population, landscape plus the stave vs central govt politics, its unlikely India will see major car-depe…

My anecdotal experience taking the Metro in Mumbai suggests calling it full is a criminal understatement.
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