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Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

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Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#121

Post by cam_l »

nosianu wrote: post #119
cam_l wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have touched on what i think is the critical underlying difference between Left and Right thinking. Systemic responsibility vs personal responsibility. The thing is, they are not mutually exclusive. They are more like two sides of the same coin. And while those two sides may not be exactly equal, most arguments between the sides seem to centre on the disjunct between these two ways of thinking. If you can acknowl…

That is not a difference of politics but of what you are looking at. If the subject is public health policy you look at statistics and the big picture. If you look at one particular patient you don't. Same here: If the subject is the fate of one person and one person only (meaning that person isn't a "Fake" stand-in example and the subject really is the big picture) then you can and should talk about that person's be…

Fully agree, but i think the crux is you cannot have an individual without a system.

Which i think the Right don't really understand. And of course the left speak as if the individual is theoretical when looking at the system.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#122

Post by RandomInteger4 »

mseidl wrote: post #64
badpun wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make American-level software engineer salary in Sweden, your EFFECTIVE (not marginal, effective) tax rate is a freaking 55% - at least that’s the number given to me by a recruiter whi tried to bring me there. Also, you pay 25% VAT. I’m sorry, but that’s a bit outrageous.

As a German software engineer that used to work in the USA, do I pay more taxes in Germany, yes. But, I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical issues. In Seattle where I used to live daycare is 30,000$ a year per kid. In Germany it's at most like 200-300 euros a month. Plus you get kindergeld too(200 euros per kid). We don't go into 10s of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for schoo…

I highly doubt daycare is 30k / year.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#123

Post by hanging »

lisper wrote: post #36
enraged_camel wrote: post #2

I accidentally stabbed myself in the finger while cutting open a package using a knife. Stupid, I know. The would was small, maybe 1 centimeter, but deep enough that it wouldn't stop bleeding on its own. My girlfriend insisted we go to the ER (urgent cares around here are closed on Sundays), so we did. I was the only one there that day. I was ushered in to see a doctor. The doctor looked at the wound, and said, "this…

You weren't paying for the glue and the five minutes. You were paying for the overhead of maintaining all the other stuff that was there that you might have needed under different circumstances but happened not to need that day.

Moreso for the indigent patients who don't pay at all for ER use.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#124

Post by nightski »

lisper wrote: post #46
superpermutat0r wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, public spending on healthcare in USA is enormous. Higher than military budget. USA is unfortunately country where enormous amounts of people are sick. Mostly side effects of obesityand lack of physical activity.

All of this is a side-effect of the uniquely American philosophy that says that if someone is making money they must be making a net positive contribution to society, because otherwise why would anyone buy their product? This approach overlooks externalities and rent-seeking. The net result is that we have a lot of people making money selling things to people that they want but makes them sick (soda, cigarettes, corn…

While I do not disagree with you altogether, I have a hard time believing it would be possible to come up with some sort system that is inclusive of these externalities. Look at what a crapshow nutrition science is - do we really want government encouraging/discouraging foods more so than it already is? Look at how bad farm subsidies have affected our health in general.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#125

Post by cannonedhamster »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #77
mseidl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German software engineer that used to work in the USA, do I pay more taxes in Germany, yes. But, I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from medical issues. In Seattle where I used to live daycare is 30,000$ a year per kid. In Germany it's at most like 200-300 euros a month. Plus you get kindergeld too(200 euros per kid). We don't go into 10s of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for schoo…

Most Americans have good healthcare through their employer. The premiums are reasonable, and the quality is great. Only if you're self employed or part time do you pay out of pocket, something you need to factor in when you make life decisions.

Uh..no..I'm not sure where you're getting your facts but no this is completely false. Most Americans have either Medicare/Medicaid, or various levels of employer sponsored healthcare, most of which are really poor or push large burdens on their employees. I have fully paid for healthcare through my employer and I STILL have a $5000 max out of pocket that I have to cover before insurance fully covers me. To put that in perspective that's an entire month's income in a country where most people live paycheck to paycheck.

Oh and the cherry on top of that is that in the US you can literally be fired for getting a prolonged medical illness, such as, oh say, cancer, which impacts nearly every single American. It's totally legal, which then takes your wonderful healthcare and removes it right when you need it most and can least afford to lose it. Another fun fact is that it's really hard for most people to work when getting prolonged medical care, which means, again you can't really pay for the bills you are getting.

If you think quality is great, then you're lucky. US hospitals can flat out refuse to treat you properly if you're "lucky" enough to go to a Christian based hospital, which will deny care unless life threatening, in some states this nears the majority of hospitals.

So no, most people who go bankrupt from medical bills in America HAVE health insurance. You're living in a fantasy bubble I suggest you step out of before you get a huge shock. I sincerely hope you never have to experience this first hand because it's absolutely hell for those who have to go through it.

Sources: Average US Income: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...

Catholic Healthcare: https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2016/05/07/health-car...

Healthcare bankruptcies: https://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148 Rebuttal: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/643000-bankruptcies-in-the... https://www.studyfinds.org/two-thirds-of-all-american-bankru...

Edit: I don't mean to suggest US healthcare providers are poor, it's generally the best in the world if you live in the east coast, Texas, or west coast the south and midwest generally have poorer coverage with the exception of cities. We basically have the best healthcare that you can afford, the problem is that most people can't afford it.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#126

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

cannonedhamster wrote: post #125
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans have good healthcare through their employer. The premiums are reasonable, and the quality is great. Only if you're self employed or part time do you pay out of pocket, something you need to factor in when you make life decisions.

Uh..no..I'm not sure where you're getting your facts but no this is completely false. Most Americans have either Medicare/Medicaid, or various levels of employer sponsored healthcare, most of which are really poor or push large burdens on their employees. I have fully paid for healthcare through my employer and I STILL have a $5000 max out of pocket that I have to cover before insurance fully covers me. To put that i…

Over 71% of people are happy with their employer coverage, as am I. I also chose a high deductible of $5000, but I have a $0 monthly premium. If I chose a $50 premium, I would pay $500 deductible. And that's only for major expenses. Drugs and checkups don't need the deductible. Yes, there's reforms needed, but it's not the apocalyptic picture people paint.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#127

Post by speedplane »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #126
cannonedhamster wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh..no..I'm not sure where you're getting your facts but no this is completely false. Most Americans have either Medicare/Medicaid, or various levels of employer sponsored healthcare, most of which are really poor or push large burdens on their employees. I have fully paid for healthcare through my employer and I STILL have a $5000 max out of pocket that I have to cover before insurance fully covers me. To put that i…

Over 71% of people are happy with their employer coverage, as am I. I also chose a high deductible of $5000, but I have a $0 monthly premium. If I chose a $50 premium, I would pay $500 deductible. And that's only for major expenses. Drugs and checkups don't need the deductible. Yes, there's reforms needed, but it's not the apocalyptic picture people paint.

> Over 71% of people are happy with their employer coverage

That statistic is not terribly revealing, as I suspect that the vast majority of those 71% are relatively healthy/young people. I'd like to know the percentage of people who have had significant health events in the past 12 months that are happy with their coverage.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#128

Post by cimmanom »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #116
dragonwriter wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 91.2% of people have coverage, 67.2% through their employer. 71% of Americans answered they are satisfied with their employer-provided coverage. So, almost 4 percentage points more Americans are satisfied with their employer-provided healthcare than actually have it? Or do you mean 71% of the 67.2% not 71% of Americans?

That survey was for employee provided coverage, so it would be 71% of the 67.2% Americans who get their coverage via employers. I couldn't find satisfaction rates for government provided coverage.

Which means less than half of Americans are satisfied with their coverage. Not “most”.

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#129

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

cimmanom wrote: post #128
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That survey was for employee provided coverage, so it would be 71% of the 67.2% Americans who get their coverage via employers. I couldn't find satisfaction rates for government provided coverage.

Which means less than half of Americans are satisfied with their coverage. Not “most”.

No that means the majority of people with employee provided insurance are happy.

There aren't stats on satisfaction of government provided healthcare, but if they are unsatisfied it furthers my point that the government should stay out of healthcare. And if they are satisfied then there is no problem :)

Re: Americans Are Going Bankrupt from Getting Sick

#130

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

speedplane wrote: post #127
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 71% of people are happy with their employer coverage, as am I. I also chose a high deductible of $5000, but I have a $0 monthly premium. If I chose a $50 premium, I would pay $500 deductible. And that's only for major expenses. Drugs and checkups don't need the deductible. Yes, there's reforms needed, but it's not the apocalyptic picture people paint.

> Over 71% of people are happy with their employer coverage That statistic is not terribly revealing, as I suspect that the vast majority of those 71% are relatively healthy/young people. I'd like to know the percentage of people who have had significant health events in the past 12 months that are happy with their coverage.

It usually takes a few months for employer coverage to kick in. And most people stay at their jobs for well over a couple of years. I'm sure most of those people have had to use their insurance in their period of time of working at their job. I find it harder to believe the opposite.
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