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25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

which.co.uk

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Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#51

Post by the8472 »

jstanley wrote: post #36
ACS_Solver wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect for EU countries. The EU, through Directive 2014/92, mandates that banks cannot refuse basic accounts to legal EU residents (unless they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups). I live in an essentially cashless country, but even countries where cash is still used would be very hard to live in without a bank account, so that legislation is important.

> banks cannot refuse basic accounts to legal EU residents (unless they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups). This is little comfort if you're not a legal EU resident, or if they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups (whether you actually are or not). As long as there are any caveats to "cannot refuse bank accounts to all people" then switching to a cashless society would c…

Not being a resident means you are the resident of a different country, so the assumption is that you have a bank account there. And being illegal or a suspected terror financer would already put you in an underclass anyway.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#52

Post by toast0 »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #40
Amezarak wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not paying monthly fees, It really gets my goat that some banks even charge monthly fees. Having a checking and savings account should be free. Withdrawing from and depositing to the account should be free. Writing checks and using a debit card should be free. I am not a fan of overdraft fees, but I can see that they're at least justifiable. Please don't patronize banks that have these fees.

Highly agreed my friend. I have never ever been charged a single fee for anything by my credit union. I've been there for 10 years now. Aside from the money they make loaning out my deposits there, I don't think they've ever made a cent off me. They have a direct deposit from my employer, but they pay me 1% APY monthly and I am sure they're losing money on me in that regard,

If they're paying you 1% APY on deposits now, they're not losing money. The going rate rate on deposits these days is a little over 2%.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#53

Post by pjc50 »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #30
pjc50 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, this is more complicated if you're not a UK national, and if the Home Office decides you're an illegal immigrant (a process with a deliberate high false positive rate) it can get closed. https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/blog/6538/Student-banking-Do-you-r... gives a decent overview of the process. It also mentions the unofficial national ID of the UK, household utility bills.

I take that to mean that the UK is not switching to e-billing for utilities any time soon.

Oh, it mostly already has.

The punchline is whether a printout of a PDF of something that never had a print original counts as an "original" for ID purposes in a completely adhoc adversarial system. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#54

Post by Symbiote »

sbacic wrote: post #4

I've recently visited London for the first time. What really stunned me was the huge number of homeless people. They were practically everywhere. And they all relied on cash donations. I wonder what will happen to these people as society becomes more and more cashless? What effect will it have on crime?

I lived in London since I was a teenager, but moved out in 2015. When I next visited it in 2017, I thought there were a lot of homeless people. It was a huge increase, and the composition was changed -- more British accents asking for change, more people in "nice" areas (like near the theatres) and far more rough sleepers. There were even tents on streets in central London, which I'd not seen previously.

A friend a decade older than me said it was the usual effect of Conservative government policy, but I was too young to have noticed the previous implementation. I was 11 when the Conservatives lost power in 1997, and they only fully regained it in 2015.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#55

Post by throwaway8864e »

sbacic wrote: post #4

I've recently visited London for the first time. What really stunned me was the huge number of homeless people. They were practically everywhere. And they all relied on cash donations. I wonder what will happen to these people as society becomes more and more cashless? What effect will it have on crime?

In a China, beggars will have a QR code that you can use to give them some money.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#56

Post by matco11 »

It seems to me that a cashless society can have many advantages - when everything works well. Yet, cashless societies would be pretty disastrous in case of natural disasters, acts of war, acts of terrorist, industrial accidents, and any other circumstances that would take out electricity and/or telecommunications. To me that seems a good reason to kill the case for going cashless nationwide.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#57

Post by theonemind »

the8472 wrote: post #51
jstanley wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> banks cannot refuse basic accounts to legal EU residents (unless they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups). This is little comfort if you're not a legal EU resident, or if they believe you're laundering money or financing terror groups (whether you actually are or not). As long as there are any caveats to "cannot refuse bank accounts to all people" then switching to a cashless society would c…

Not being a resident means you are the resident of a different country, so the assumption is that you have a bank account there. And being illegal or a suspected terror financer would already put you in an underclass anyway.

The assumption that everyone has a country causes problems for people who actually don't: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#58

Post by falsedan »

jdietrich wrote: post #34
Retra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do if you're not a legal EU resident, you will be unable to purchase food/lodging/transportation?

Monzo will give a bank account to pretty much anyone with a verifiable form of ID, regardless of their residency status. https://monzo.com/blog/2018/05/29/getting-bank-account-immig...

As long as they have a reasonably recent smart phone

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#59

Post by userbinator »

sametmax wrote: post #47

Another problem is that no society is perfect. And even if it were, it won't stay that way. There is a need for a small grey area in any system to stay sane, where people can workaround the limitations of said system. Yes, it will be abused, and also used for nefarious purposes. But it's better than the alternative. You need people to sometimes be able to do things the state doesn't approve. You need children to be a…

There is a need for a small grey area in any system to stay sane, where people can workaround the limitations of said system.

There is a similar analogy to what is happening in the computing world, and I've heard it called "the insecurity that gives us freedom." I agree.

Re: 25M Brits would struggle in a cashless society

#60

Post by galfarragem »

sametmax wrote: post #47

Another problem is that no society is perfect. And even if it were, it won't stay that way. There is a need for a small grey area in any system to stay sane, where people can workaround the limitations of said system. Yes, it will be abused, and also used for nefarious purposes. But it's better than the alternative. You need people to sometimes be able to do things the state doesn't approve. You need children to be a…

Great comment. Came here (to try) to say exactly this.
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