[deleted]
California declared drought free for first time in seven years
141–150 of 242 posts
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#142To first order, California's water problem is agricultural. And that's because there's no market in that water that would curtail what is a very low value use of it. Fix that, or resort to fractional measures that just paper over the underlying dysfunction.
I always cringe when I hear markers and water in the same sentence. I’m not sure what exactly you mean by “markets” but the history of water rights in CA is a great lesson highlighting how spectacularly “markets” can fail to handle water.
I mean that if resources were reallocated by a market, literally EVERYONE would be better off. The current situation is not Pareto-optimal.
To put it another way: if the users being asked to conserve water could just pay farmers to use their water, both would come out ahead. The farmers would get more value than from using it for farming, and the other consumers would get more water for a lower price than from alternatives.
In any case, it's bizarre you cringe at the word "markets". Societies that try to avoid markets are horror shows. Markets are an utterly essential social technology for the modern world.
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#143They need to completely change the way water in California is billed. Right now rates keep going up as we get better at conservation, which disincentives conservation. At the same time, in areas with a flat rate, people use way too much water. When Sacramento had a flat rate, you'd see people turn on their hose as they left for work and let it flood their lawn all day, running into the street, to keep their lush gree…
How is the proposed system different from computing the cost per gallon by taking the flat rate and dividing it by the typical usage, and using that amount under a conventional billing model?
Either way, it has the same basic properties of "cost is flat over time if you continue to conserve" and "you'll pay more than your neighbours if you use more than them."
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#144Being a bit cynical here, but could we just call it the California rain cycle, instead of being amazed every 7-10 years when droughts come and go.
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought California. Has the best climate in the country?
Along the coast and in some mountain areas it's perfect. Otherwise it's a f...ing desert.
Well, it's not all just desert; that's more in the south. In the middle it's mostly farmland (in fact, rather excellent farmland, thanks to the combination of good soil, plenty of sunshine, temperate weather, and - the recent droughts notwithstanding - decent water availability; there's a reason why California is the primary source of quite a few fruits and vegetables for the world, let alone the US), and in the north it's mostly forest.
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#146Being a bit cynical here, but could we just call it the California rain cycle, instead of being amazed every 7-10 years when droughts come and go.
> instead of being amazed every 7-10 years when droughts come and go.
Was there a drought 10 years ago though? I don't recall.
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#147The experience here in Orange County over the last few months has been nuts. Being able to hang out down near the ocean and see the San Gabriel mountains just decked out in snow is surreal: https://i.redd.it/kueaye5p6si21.jpg Another photo: https://i.redd.it/vy7dlavrh0f21.jpg Anaheim hills, an area that rarely gets snowed on: https://i.redd.it/trbf198kb6i21.jpg Then we roll right into the poppy/wildflower superbloom…
I thought California. Has the best climate in the country?
It does. Given that everyone has their own idea of 'best', California has climates that span desert to rain forest and pretty much everything in between.
As long as you locate to the area that most closely approximates your personal definition of 'best' you win.
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#148They need to completely change the way water in California is billed. Right now rates keep going up as we get better at conservation, which disincentives conservation. At the same time, in areas with a flat rate, people use way too much water. When Sacramento had a flat rate, you'd see people turn on their hose as they left for work and let it flood their lawn all day, running into the street, to keep their lush gree…
How is the proposed system different from computing the cost per gallon by taking the flat rate and dividing it by the typical usage, and using that amount under a conventional billing model? Either way, it has the same basic properties of "cost is flat over time if you continue to conserve" and "you'll pay more than your neighbours if you use more than them."
It's more obvious to the consumer why they are being charged more, and it gives them more control.
Also, just conserving wouldn't be enough to keep your bill down -- you'd have to conserve better than your neighbors. If you keep doing the same thing your bill will slowly go up as you get "out-conserved".
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course it is generally legal to collect rain from your roof, assuming local HOA rules allow it. But you won’t likely get much quality water from that. Better would be greywater collection and recycling.
He's asking because in some states it's illegal to collect rain water, it belongs to someone else. Colorado, for example, only recently legalized rain barrels - but limits it to only 2: https://source.colostate.edu/extension-offers-fact-sheet-on-...
in some states rain water belongs to someone else -- the most surprising thing I've learned this whole month...
Re: California declared drought free for first time in seven years
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always cringe when I hear markers and water in the same sentence. I’m not sure what exactly you mean by “markets” but the history of water rights in CA is a great lesson highlighting how spectacularly “markets” can fail to handle water.
I mean that if resources were reallocated by a market, literally EVERYONE would be better off. The current situation is not Pareto-optimal. To put it another way: if the users being asked to conserve water could just pay farmers to use their water, both would come out ahead. The farmers would get more value than from using it for farming, and the other consumers would get more water for a lower price than from altern…
I love market based economies, but not the idea that markets solve all problems. You said something about “their water”, and that’s the problem. Going back to the history of CA water rights, there is no clear concept to determine who owns water. If I buy the house on the river upstream from your house on the river, who owns the river water? I went to college in CA and had to take a bunch of CA history classes. I highly recommend reading up on CA water rights and it’s history. It’s a fascinating and enlightening topic.